Looking for Advice on a Sliding Table saw

[Rob Sack]

If you think that an Excalibur is accurate you need to try out a real slider. It will truly "knock your socks off".

Actually, I have tried a real slider and that's why I make the claim (and my socks are still on). I've cut out whole kitchens on my set up and when checking the diagonals on the panels, using the same tape measure, the difference in the diagonal readings were between 0 and 1/32", which makes the panels at or less than 1/64" out of square, even 2' by 7.5' pantry side panels. To me, that's pretty accurate. I've only used European sliding table saws in the past. How much more accurate do you think they are going to be? Do you think an Asian import slider is going to be more accurate than 0 - 1/64" out of square?

I am not suggesting that one shouldn't buy a dedicated sliding table saw. They are terrific machines, especially if you have the room for an 8 - 10' slider. But for a "short stroke" slider, your choices are limited. When combining the safety and precision of a Sawstop, along with the accuracy of a dedicated sliding table saw at a fraction of the cost and having the support and service from the people at Sawstop made this an easy choice. My set up has seen a lot of use over the years and is as accurate today as it was "out of the box". But as some here have suggested, I guess it depends on your definition of accurate, socks or no socks.

[Warren Lake]

I had two excaliburs the first generation, fine for what they were but poor results. I probably paid less for a used slider than a new Excalibur sliding table.

[eugene thomas]

shop fox slider is basicaly grizzly painted white. needed special part for my grizzly sliding table saw and was on back order for months but got from shop fox in few days.

[Mike Kees]

Rob my experience is the opposite of yours. I had an Excalibur mounted on a Unisaw as my first venture into sliding saws. I had nothing but grief trying to get it adjusted accurate. Once it was there it was very finicky and if it was bumped it got knocked out of alignment. Eventually I took most of a sheet of plywood and drilled holes for the legs then screwed it down to the floor. this helped a lot it now did not get knocked out of alignment daily. The space between the edge of the slider and the blade sucked as well. Step number two was a Minimax Sc2 from somewhere in the 80's. Once I got it cleaned up and adjusted it was a great short stroke slider, a very big step up from the excalibur. Then I sold it and got a Felder K700s. Another big step up. Every step improved my speed, efficiency and accuracy. I work in my shop for a living so those things are important to me . YMMV

[Alex Zeller]

I'm not going to offer an opinion on that saw but would like to ask this. It sounds like the OP (and probably more) aren't familiar with how to use a slider. The sheet goods seams simple enough but I've read lots of people who think ripping hardwoods is either a pain or can't be done. Maybe someone can chime in on how one would do it. For example, if you use the fence can you lock the slider in place so the saw is basically like a cabinet saw? Or if the sliding movement is longer than the board you are ripping can you use the slider vs the fence? If so roughly what width board would be the minimum one could safely do? I would love a slider but I lack the real estate needed at the moment so I usually just read the threads about them just to learn.

[Ronald Blue]

I'm not going to offer an opinion on that saw but would like to ask this. It sounds like the OP (and probably more) aren't familiar with how to use a slider. The sheet goods seams simple enough but I've read lots of people who think ripping hardwoods is either a pain or can't be done. Maybe someone can chime in on how one would do it. For example, if you use the fence can you lock the slider in place so the saw is basically like a cabinet saw? Or if the sliding movement is longer than the board you are ripping can you use the slider vs the fence? If so roughly what width board would be the minimum one could safely do? I would love a slider but I lack the real estate needed at the moment so I usually just read the threads about them just to learn.

You've pretty much nailed it Alex. I'm pretty ignorant of what all the different ways there are to use a slider. Beyond throwing a sheet of plywood on it and it riding on the sliding table rather than trying to keep it tight against a fence I'm in the dark.

[Rob Sack]

Rob my experience is the opposite of yours. I had an Excalibur mounted on a Unisaw as my first venture into sliding saws. I had nothing but grief trying to get it adjusted accurate. Once it was there it was very finicky and if it was bumped it got knocked out of alignment. Eventually I took most of a sheet of plywood and drilled holes for the legs then screwed it down to the floor. this helped a lot it now did not get knocked out of alignment daily. The space between the edge of the slider and the blade sucked as well. Step number two was a Minimax Sc2 from somewhere in the 80's. Once I got it cleaned up and adjusted it was a great short stroke slider, a very big step up from the excalibur. Then I sold it and got a Felder K700s. Another big step up. Every step improved my speed, efficiency and accuracy. I work in my shop for a living so those things are important to me . YMMV

Actually, my first Excalibur was a very early first generation. In fact, it was the booth demo at AWFS when it was first introduced back when the AWFS was still in Anaheim. That one worked fine as long as you didn't bump it. When I bought my Sawstop ICS, I also purchased a newer generation Excaliber which is must more robust in construction, and that is the one I use today. Since Sawstop took over Excalibur, they have made further improvements to the unit.

All I am saying is that I get consistent results with my Excalibur sliding table on par with a dedicated sliding table saw and I get the safety features of the Sawstop.

[Mike Kreinhop]

I'm not going to offer an opinion on that saw but would like to ask this. It sounds like the OP (and probably more) aren't familiar with how to use a slider. The sheet goods seams simple enough but I've read lots of people who think ripping hardwoods is either a pain or can't be done. Maybe someone can chime in on how one would do it. For example, if you use the fence can you lock the slider in place so the saw is basically like a cabinet saw? Or if the sliding movement is longer than the board you are ripping can you use the slider vs the fence? If so roughly what width board would be the minimum one could safely do? I would love a slider but I lack the real estate needed at the moment so I usually just read the threads about them just to learn.

I don't have the experience that Jim Becker or Derek Cohen have with their sliders, but I have never had a problem ripping hardwood lumber on either the sliding wagon or using the standard rip fence. The method I used depended on the condition of the wood. If I needed to create a fresh clean reference edge, I clamped the slab onto the wagon using the end wedge clamp that came with the saw. I positioned the slab on the wagon to ensure I didn't waste a lot of wood to make the cut. After running the slab through the blade, I then locked the slider in place and used the standard rip fence to cut the opposite edge. This usually gave me glue-ready edges, but I could pass the slab over the jointer/planer if I wasn't sure.

So far, I haven't cut any slabs that were longer than the travel of my slider. I would use the bandsaw for longer pieces and then joint the edges.

The minimum width for ripping using the standard fence to the thickness of the push stick. There is a screw in my rip fence rail to restrict the travel too close to the blade and prevent accidental contact. However, the screw can be removed and allow the fence to move so close it will touch the blade.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I'm not going to offer an opinion on that saw but would like to ask this. It sounds like the OP (and probably more) aren't familiar with how to use a slider. The sheet goods seams simple enough but I've read lots of people who think ripping hardwoods is either a pain or can't be done. Maybe someone can chime in on how one would do it. For example, if you use the fence can you lock the slider in place so the saw is basically like a cabinet saw? Or if the sliding movement is longer than the board you are ripping can you use the slider vs the fence? If so roughly what width board would be the minimum one could safely do? I would love a slider but I lack the real estate needed at the moment so I usually just read the threads about them just to learn.

Just my take, based on around 15 years (i think???) of owning a slider and using regularly. I don't completely understood the confusion on ripping solid stock, but maybe the following will help somebody.

First, you can lay a board on the carriage with no fence and clamp or hold in place to make a straight line rip. This cut is generally perfectly fine without jointing, however in some boards it releases tension and a second lighter pass is required to make a perfectly straight glue line rip.

Second technique is for ripping stock to width, with a straight edge already on the board. Set your rip fence as you would on a cabinet saw and simply use the carriage as a sliding aid as you push the stock through. You can also lock the carriage and your saw is a just a big cabinet saw during this cut. Use a fence that is long enough to extend behind the blade, like most cabinet saws are set up. This technique is the most common way in my shop to rip something longer than the carriage to width. I have an 8' stroke, so it's not necessary often.

Third technique if for ripping to width without a rip fence. You can use stops on both ends of the board, with it riding on the carriage to rip to width. on my saw I just use the crosscut stops on the forward end of the board, and a ripping jig on the rear. A ripping jig is just another set of stops on a tape or digital scale. You can set both stops the same to have parallel rips, or you can offset to rip tapers. I personally don't use this very often as setting two scales is somewhat tedious and I prefer the next technique.

Fourth, and my favorite ripping technique, is to use a short fence set to the width you want, with the fence pulled towards the operator so it stops before the blade. This is a bump fence. It is there solely to position the stock on the carriage, not to guide the stock past the blade. Slide the stock against the bump fence, push down on the stock or clamp, and the cut gets made with no fence beside the blade. Benefits are that it can be incredibly fast, quick to set up, cut stock is not trapped between a fence and a spinning blade, and the cuts are made off the carriage instead of sliding on the table.

There are others, like Fritz and Franz. This is just what I use most often. Having all the various options definitely lets you use the best technique for a particular cut. There are other benefits, for example a slider is the best possible tenoning jig with a simple jig clamped to the carriage. Because everything is adjustable, you also don't need to compromise to make a cut, just configure for ideal and cut away.

I would change one thing if I had a different slider, I would like more depth of cut, so a bigger blade machine would be handy. Mines a 12", well metric equivalent now.

[Wakahisa Shinta]

There are a few ways I rip using my KF700SP.

With two parallel fences (or one flip stop + one parallel fence) attached to the sliding table, the stock is referenced to the parallel fences then clamped down to the sliding table before ripping using the sliding table. Operator stands on the left side of the sliding table and saw blade.

Using the rip fence like a traditional cabinet saw, except the operator stands to the left of the sliding table, facing the machine side-way (not at the in-feed end of the saw). I often use my left hand to push the existing stock against the fence as it clears the over-head saw guard. Sliding table can be locked or not, depending on preference.

Using the rip fence and the sliding table with stock clamped or held down to the sliding table. If the rip fence has a toe-out dialed in as default, then this is corrected for parallelism to the saw blade before ripping operation. My least used method, though I use this for ripping thin strips.

Ripping rough cut lumber to establish the first straight edge can be done with an edging shoe. Or just clamp the board to the sliding table and rip.

A Fritz and Franz jig, simple to make, aids with ripping small to medium length stock. It keeps the operator's hands away from the blade.

A parallel fence, like the one David Cohen just posted with the Incra fence and extrusion aluminum, helps ripping small stock as well. Sam Blasco has an excellent video about his fence.

There are probably numerous other methods other people employ for ripping on a sliding table saw, but those above are the ones I often use. My other favorite way to rip lumber is using a bandsaw before putting the stock through the planer.

I have not tried this, but if you have a saw-shaper combination machine and a power feeder with a long enough arm, you can rip using the power feeder fitted with wheels that straddle the saw blade.

[Joe Hendershott]

Just my take, based on around 15 years (i think???) of owning a slider and using regularly. I don't completely understood the confusion on ripping solid stock, but maybe the following will help somebody.

First, you can lay a board on the carriage with no fence and clamp or hold in place to make a straight line rip. This cut is generally perfectly fine without jointing, however in some boards it releases tension and a second lighter pass is required to make a perfectly straight glue line rip.

Second technique is for ripping stock to width, with a straight edge already on the board. Set your rip fence as you would on a cabinet saw and simply use the carriage as a sliding aid as you push the stock through. You can also lock the carriage and your saw is a just a big cabinet saw during this cut. Use a fence that is long enough to extend behind the blade, like most cabinet saws are set up. This technique is the most common way in my shop to rip something longer than the carriage to width. I have an 8' stroke, so it's not necessary often.

Third technique if for ripping to width without a rip fence. You can use stops on both ends of the board, with it riding on the carriage to rip to width. on my saw I just use the crosscut stops on the forward end of the board, and a ripping jig on the rear. A ripping jig is just another set of stops on a tape or digital scale. You can set both stops the same to have parallel rips, or you can offset to rip tapers. I personally don't use this very often as setting two scales is somewhat tedious and I prefer the next technique.

Fourth, and my favorite ripping technique, is to use a short fence set to the width you want, with the fence pulled towards the operator so it stops before the blade. This is a bump fence. It is there solely to position the stock on the carriage, not to guide the stock past the blade. Slide the stock against the bump fence, push down on the stock or clamp, and the cut gets made with no fence beside the blade. Benefits are that it can be incredibly fast, quick to set up, cut stock is not trapped between a fence and a spinning blade, and the cuts are made off the carriage instead of sliding on the table.

There are others, like Fritz and Franz. This is just what I use most often. Having all the various options definitely lets you use the best technique for a particular cut. There are other benefits, for example a slider is the best possible tenoning jig with a simple jig clamped to the carriage. Because everything is adjustable, you also don't need to compromise to make a cut, just configure for ideal and cut away.

I would change one thing if I had a different slider, I would like more depth of cut, so a bigger blade machine would be handy. Mines a 12", well metric equivalent now.

Very good, concise description. The fourth method is indeed usually the best.

[Derek Cohen]

I'm not going to offer an opinion on that saw but would like to ask this. It sounds like the OP (and probably more) aren't familiar with how to use a slider. The sheet goods seams simple enough but I've read lots of people who think ripping hardwoods is either a pain or can't be done. Maybe someone can chime in on how one would do it. For example, if you use the fence can you lock the slider in place so the saw is basically like a cabinet saw? Or if the sliding movement is longer than the board you are ripping can you use the slider vs the fence? If so roughly what width board would be the minimum one could safely do? I would love a slider but I lack the real estate needed at the moment so I usually just read the threads about them just to learn.

Alex, as far as I am aware, all sliders may also be used as standard cabinet saws by locking down the wagon. On the sliders with long wagons, however, the wagon can extend back quite far, and this gets in the way. The short stroke sliders, that is, with short wagons, such as my Hammer K3 which is 1250mm long (actually 1370mm long) does not suffer this limitation ...



There are shorter wagons. I believe the shortest is 800mm.

One does not need anything more fancy than a couple of clamps to hold a rough sawn, live edge board to create a straight side ...



The reason that the slider can rip a glue line edge so well is that the work piece is held stationary as it moves past the blade. The absence of any movement ensures that the cut line is straight. Even on a great cabinet saw, a board running along a rip fence is subject to movement. Even slight movement will impact on the edge cut.

I use my rip fence for ripping boards too long for the wagon, and I get a superbly straight edge. The reason? I added a JessEm Guides (I have them on the router table as well). This forces the work piece against the rip fence, and minimises any random movement. The result is very, very good .. but not ultimately as good as the slider wagon ...



Regarding widths, one can purchase several sizes of outfeed tables for use in cabinet saw mode. The outfeed on my K3 is 31". This is more than enough for the furniture I build. And to answer your question, I only work with hardwoods, and consider this slider absolutely perfect for this purpose.

The width on the slider wagon is up to you. There are accessories which can take full sheets of ply or MDF. I am not interested in these, and the slider is set up for the typical lengths and widths of the pieces I build. That is the reason why the parallel guide fixture I built is the size it is. Perfect for my needs, but may not suit another ...



I've had the K3 for about 3 or 4 years now. The choice at the time included a Sawstop Professional 3 hp with 35" outfeed and add-on sliding table. The SS is a very fine saw. I plumped for the K3 after using them side-by-side. I have never regretted that decision.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Scott Buehler]

I have that exact saw and I am very happy with it. I also have had a nicer SCM slider years ago and I would not say it is as nice or as capable as the SCM or other euro saw, but for the price and the smaller footprint, it's a great saw. Let me know if you have any other questions about it

[Ronald Blue]

I have that exact saw and I am very happy with it. I also have had a nicer SCM slider years ago and I would not say it is as nice or as capable as the SCM or other euro saw, but for the price and the smaller footprint, it's a great saw. Let me know if you have any other questions about it

Thanks Scott. I told them today that if they have other interested parties to move forward. It's a good buy but not enough so that I can't grab a brand new one relatively painlessly.