How Many use Hot Hide As Primary Glue?

[ken hatch]

The rub joint thread begs a question, How many folks are regular users of hot hide glue? Is hot hide glue the one you use if there is not a reason not to?

For this West Texas farm boy the answer to both is yes. Unless I'm going to be out of the shop for several days the first thing I do in the morning is turn the glue pot on and check the water level and glue level.

ken

[Christopher Charles]

Sort of: I use warmed Old Brown Glue for nearly everything Mainly because 1) my shop would freeze until recently making it hard to keep a standing pot that didn't crack the glass jar I had the glue in, 2) see #1) as cold surfaces and hot glue don't go together so hot...and 3) my shop time often is shorter than the time it takes your glue pot to warm up! And when I had a standing pot, it ended up molding several times between bouts...

That said, I would love to get to the point that it was the primary method.

[Jason Buresh]

Ken,

I would like to get into hot hide glue, but i have zero experience with it, nor do I have a pot and warmer yet. I have been considering getting the Lee Valley pot and warmer after the holidays and experimenting with hide glue.

For now I use titebond 2 for pretty much everything except cutting boards where i use titebond 3

[ken hatch]

Sort of: I use warmed Old Brown Glue for nearly everything Mainly because 1) my shop would freeze until recently making it hard to keep a standing pot that didn't crack the glass jar I had the glue in, 2) see #1) as cold surfaces and hot glue don't go together so hot...and 3) my shop time often is shorter than the time it takes your glue pot to warm up! And when I had a standing pot, it ended up molding several times between bouts...

That said, I would love to get to the point that it was the primary method.

Chris,

I'm lucky living in the desert, few times it freezes here. Mold is the reason I turn it on every day unless I'm going to be out of the shop for an extended time. If that happens i pour the glue onto a screen and let it dry. The dried glue is easy to re-constitute and the process starts over.

If my shop time was limited I expect "Old Brown" would be my goto as well.

ken

[Robert Engel]

I’ve recently started using hot hide glue for hammer veneering - very low learning curve, BTW.

I’m considering using a lot more for joinery and general gluing.

Plus there’s the cache of feeling a connection to ww’ers of 200 yrs ago.

[ken hatch]

Ken,

I would like to get into hot hide glue, but i have zero experience with it, nor do I have a pot and warmer yet. I have been considering getting the Lee Valley pot and warmer after the holidays and experimenting with hide glue.

For now I use titebond 2 for pretty much everything except cutting boards where i use titebond 3

Jason,

I have not looked at the LV pot in several years so I could be mistaken but IIRC it is pretty small. The TFWW glue pot costs a penny or two but is also the best I've found. Basically a no brainer to use either directly or if using a interior pot all you need to do is make sure it has water. I've used it both ways and both work.

The only thing I'd add is for some applications liquid hide glue is better and some a Titebond III type is better but hot works about 80% of the time.

ken

ken

[Mel Fulks]

A Crock Pot works well ,as it's pretty much the same thing . Would check temps with thermometer,even on the "real ones"
USED crock pots used to be standard yard sale stock item, but I haven't seen any yard sales for quite a while.

[Andrew Seemann]

I had a hot hide glue phase a dozen or so years ago. I even have the HoldHeet automatic pot, which is nice to have when you need it. I haven't used it in a few years though. My shop time is limited and erratic, and Titebond 1 - 3 and Liquid Hide Glue work for nearly all of what I do. I know you can make hot hide ahead of time and keep it in the fridge, etc, but unless I really needed the specific properties of hot hide, I don't see a reason to use it. I did get some ground hide glue from TFWW last year, so now I at least have it on hand if I need it.

[roger wiegand]

It's pretty much the only thing I use in my player piano and organ building and restoration work; reversibility is a key property. Similarly for stringed instruments and any antique furniture repair. For more general new furniture work I get on better with glues with more open time. If the pot is already hot I'll use it for all kinds of things, if it's not I'm more likely to reach for a bottle on the shelf. A fairly pragmatic approach I'm afraid. I use fish glue a lot when I want something that grabs very quickly for cloth or leather to wood joints. As with liquid hide, I don't trust it to stay strong in any structural application.

If I remember to splash a little denatured alcohol over the surface of the hide glue before closing the bottle (I use a HoldHeet pot, but put a wide mouth reagent bottle with a tight fitting lid into it) I have much less problem with mold, sadly I don't often remember and waste a lot of glue.

[Curt Putnam]

During the winter in my part of SoCal (a little west of Palm Springs) it drops into the 40s and often into the 30s at night which is wheen I like to glue on the few occasions that I do. Discovered LHG works very well in high heat. It is still workable long after Titebond I, II or III have set up. Now that I am mobile again, I'll get more shop time and more glue up requirements. I just do not see HHG in my future - too much fuss and too little working time.

[Phil Mueller]

I’ve been watching a few Rosa String Works YouTube vids lately. He builds and restores instruments. He has claimed on several occasions that if Titebond Original (which is what he uses almost exclusively) was available back in the day, that that is what they would have used. They used hide glue, because that is what they had. He says Titebond Original is just as easy, if not more so, to reverse with heat and water than hide glue (at least when it comes to instruments and the typical joints they use).

I haven’t tested his claim on Titebond Original. But it does make sense, like with many things, if better glue was available when antiques were being built, they would have used it.

[Curt Harms]

I’ve been watching a few Rosa String Works YouTube vids lately. He builds and restores instruments. He has claimed on several occasions that if Titebond Original (which is what he uses almost exclusively) was available back in the day, that that is what they would have used. They used hide glue, because that is what they had. He says Titebond Original is just as easy, if not more so, to reverse with heat and water than hide glue (at least when it comes to instruments and the typical joints they use).

I haven’t tested his claim on Titebond Original. But it does make sense, like with many things, if better glue was available when antiques were being built, they would have used it.

I've always heard that with PVA glues, if a joint fails it cannot be reglued with PVA. New PVA won't stick to old PVA. Old wives tale? Wooden instruments need to be able to disassembled and reassembled for repair I thought.

[Phil Mueller]

Yea, his point was that instrument joints with Titebond Original can be undone with heat/water if needed for repairs (often easier than hide glue). He just scraps the old glue off the surface and re-glues.

It does seem doable given many joints are butt joints with very narrow pieces. I’m not sure I’d want to try to take apart a M&T with PVA.

[roger wiegand]

If you have a crack in a joint with hot hide glue you can often inject new hot glue and close it successfully because hide glue sticks to itself and reactivates the existing glue surface without removing any wood. That won't work with PVA. I can tell you that if a piano or organ has been rebuilt previously by someone who used "modern" glue it adds 50-100 hours to the rebuilding task, requiring many parts to be remade because getting them apart either destroys them or results in dimensions altered by sanding and scraping to get to a glueable surface so they don't work any more. Most rebuilders now won't touch a player piano that has been done with PVA glue.

Most luthiers and violin makers believe the rigidity of a hide glue joint is essential to the sound of their instruments, and that flexible glues like PVA have a deleterious dampening effect. I've never heard of anyone doing a side-by-side blind listening test on instruments identical but for the glue.

Almost certainly the original makers would have used PVA etc had it been available; they had no intention that their instruments should be rebuilt every 40-50 years. Those of us who work on them now are really happy they didn't have "better" choices.

[Jim Matthews]

I used both Titebond and Old Brown glue out of the bottle for one of my first projects.

I found the smell revolting. It worked fine, but wasn't worth the expense, warming period or ventilation requirements.