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Thread: Can I incorporate a ridge beam and remove ceiling ties for my shed?

  1. #1

    Can I incorporate a ridge beam and remove ceiling ties for my shed?

    I would like to remove ceiling joists in my gym building because they are too low for me to safely do overhead exercises. I would like to incorporate a ridge beam to support the roof so I can eliminate the ceiling joists safely and effectively. There is no ridge board in place, the rafters are simply nailed together. A little bit of separation has already occurred at the top. Any advice on if this is feasible and how to go about doing this project? I am attaching photos of the ceiling joists themselves, the interior peak of the roof (showing the minor separation), and the structural walls where I would be mounting the planned ridge beam.

    https://postimg.cc/gallery/rDc370n

    EDIT: Ignore the single attached photo. All the images are in an album at the postimg link I posted. I tried to delete the attached image but not seeing an option for this, at least on mobile.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Dexter McLaughlin; 11-29-2020 at 2:09 PM.

  2. #2
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    The primary purpose of the ceiling ties is to keep your walls from bowing out from the angled load from the roof (and perhaps snow load). I think that in most cases a ridge beam just provides a nice way to nail the joists at the top.

    Notre Dame Cathedral was able to open up their main church without ceiling ties - - but they had to use flying buttresses outside. I'm not suggesting that you use exterior buttresses. I just mentioned that because you need to do something to counteract the forces that would make the walls bow outward.

    Perhaps others will have some good ideas.

  3. #3
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    yes you can do it
    how long is the building?
    sawzall will be your go to tool on this one.
    need a post on both ends to hold the ridge beam

  4. #4
    You can easily do it by installing a structural ridge either cut and nested in to the existing rafters or mounted below those rafters. The ridge beam at its ends (on the gables) would have to have its load carried to foundation (whatever the foundation of the shed is). Your only concern setting a ridge under the existing rafters is either tieing the rafters each other or to the ridge beam. In a small building like that some simple tie straps on either side of the rafters connecting them to each other would be pretty simple and more than likely not even necessary but good insurance. If you cant install a post below the new ridge (door opening or something) you would just have to head it off and run to foundation that way. Location and length of span will dictate the size of the beam. Looks like youve already got a header to land on on one end.
    Last edited by Mark Bolton; 11-29-2020 at 2:52 PM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Brice Rogers View Post
    The primary purpose of the ceiling ties is to keep your walls from bowing out from the angled load from the roof (and perhaps snow load). I think that in most cases a ridge beam just provides a nice way to nail the joists at the top.
    I get that, but it was my impression from my limited research that a structural ridge beam could effectively displace the load and eliminate the outward pressure at the side walls of a building?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brice Rogers View Post
    Notre Dame Cathedral was able to open up their main church without ceiling ties - - but they had to use flying buttresses outside. I'm not suggesting that you use exterior buttresses. I just mentioned that because you need to do something to counteract the forces that would make the walls bow outward.

    Perhaps others will have some good ideas.
    That’s pretty interesting! I’m glad they didn’t put me in charge of building the cathedral and accounting for all the forces 😂

  6. #6
    17’ (Length) x 10’ (Width)

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Bolton View Post
    You can easily do it by installing a structural ridge either cut and nested in to the existing rafters or mounted below those rafters. The ridge beam at its ends (on the gables) would have to have its load carried to foundation (whatever the foundation of the shed is). Your only concern setting a ridge under the existing rafters is either tieing the rafters each other or to the ridge beam. In a small building like that some simple tie straps on either side of the rafters connecting them to each other would be pretty simple and more than likely not even necessary but good insurance. If you cant install a post below the new ridge (door opening or something) you would just have to head it off and run to foundation that way. Location and length of span will dictate the size of the beam. Looks like youve already got a header to land on on one end.
    I’m not sure I understand your terminology in the last bit: “you would just have to head it off and run to foundation that way”. You are correct in the assumption that a door is located there. It wouldn’t be feasible to have a post running all the way from floor to ridge.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter McLaughlin View Post
    I’m not sure I understand your terminology in the last bit: “you would just have to head it off and run to foundation that way”. You are correct in the assumption that a door is located there. It wouldn’t be feasible to have a post running all the way from floor to ridge.
    The load from the beam has to be supported by some sort of foundation.
    The easiest and most efficient way would be a post directly under the ends of the ridge beam, going straight down the wall to the sill plate, and have some sort of foundation under that portion of the sill plate.

    But, if you have an opening in the wall like a door, then you need a strong structural piece of wood that spans the door width, called a header. The short post will land on the header, distribute the load to its ends, then you finish the journey to the sill plate with posts on either side of the door. But now you need foundation on two spots under the sill

    p.s. There are online charts/calculators to size the ridge beam for your span and anticipated snow load. Since this is for workouts and stuff, consider bumping it up one size. My brother had a similar 12x16 “playroom” and hung apparatus and weights from his beam.
    I incorporated his design in my shed (on 4x4 skids set on concrete blocks.
    . Slight overkill maybe... 16’ span ridge beam: doubled 1.75” x 12” lvl with 2x4 vertical spacers to allow logging chains to be hung. Doors at both ends, one 8’ one 4’. I used doubled 1.75”x12 lvl headers above the doors. Doubled sill plate. Foundation under the king studs iare 24”x24” concrete block on a 6” bed of gravel.
    I use the chains and a hoist to lift my tools, weights ranging from 200# to 700#. Doesn’t even whimper.
    Last edited by Charlie Velasquez; 11-29-2020 at 5:39 PM.
    Comments made here are my own and, according to my children, do not reflect the opinions of any other person... anywhere, anytime.

  9. #9
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    Some good ideas on how to install a ridge beam but no, you can’t remove those ceiling joists!
    Edit: You can if you hire an engineer to plan the ridge beam and support. Make sure he does not overlook the horizontal wind load on the long walls and check the construction on those walls.
    Last edited by Bruce King; 11-29-2020 at 7:12 PM.

  10. #10
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    I've seen ceiling ties that were a foot or two above the wall plates. This allows you to increase your headroom and still tie the rafters to prevent outward forces on the walls

  11. #11
    The default responsible internet police response (no offense Bruce) is always as Bruce states however in a small outbuilding situation like this your likely either going to get an engineer that wont respond to your call, laughs in your face, or willingly makes a payment on his wife's Mercedes hosing you for unnecessary work.

    The replies above pretty much outline your options. Structural ridge beam (could be as simple as some dimensional lumber spiked together) supported at each end with a post to whatever footing you have available. Your photos look to sho a pretty hefty header at the one end that you could likely land on top of. Other good option as mentioned are collar ties (google). But if your wanting to open it up its probably the same work to just stick a quick ridge in there and have it open to the bottom of the ridge.

    Commercially purchased outbuildings that are shipped on a flatbed and drug around peoples property with a mule torqued and twisted all over the place will nearly never have a structural ridge so pretty much anything you do will exceed whats necessary for such a small building. As with anything, if your not comfortable, then by all means consult someone else.

  12. #12
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    I would go with Wayne"s suggestion. Add collar ties to each pair of rafters and then remove the ceiling joists. Far easier than putting in a ridge beam and you will still gain additional height in the room.

  13. #13
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    snow load?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Bolton View Post
    The default responsible internet police response (no offense Bruce) is always as Bruce states however in a small outbuilding situation like this your likely either going to get an engineer that wont respond to your call, laughs in your face, or willingly makes a payment on his wife's Mercedes hosing you for unnecessary work.

    The replies above pretty much outline your options. Structural ridge beam (could be as simple as some dimensional lumber spiked together) supported at each end with a post to whatever footing you have available. Your photos look to sho a pretty hefty header at the one end that you could likely land on top of. Other good option as mentioned are collar ties (google). But if your wanting to open it up its probably the same work to just stick a quick ridge in there and have it open to the bottom of the ridge.

    Commercially purchased outbuildings that are shipped on a flatbed and drug around peoples property with a mule torqued and twisted all over the place will nearly never have a structural ridge so pretty much anything you do will exceed whats necessary for such a small building. As with anything, if your not comfortable, then by all means consult someone else.

    This sums it up very well
    Ron

  15. #15
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    The reality of it is that outbuildings are usually poorly constructed. The top and bottom of the walls will have substandard connections. In many areas you can get 70mph wind gusts just from thunderstorms. Then there is the sad part where in areas with many similar houses for sale, the ones with inspection issues sit unsold.

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