Knock down staked Roman workbench. Am I CRAZY??!!

[chris carter]

Wow, thanks for all the great ideas and insights everyone!

I think a short-legged Moravian bench would probably be the most functional. I found this photo from a Chris Schwarz blog post of just that: https://www.flickr.com/photos/popula...7625923731671/ Although I don’t think I would put a leg vise on it.
But I think part of my motivation is the “fun factor” of something crudely simple – and it doesn’t get much more simple than a chunk of wood on four sticks. It’s also only two trips to the “job site”; one for the top and one for the legs!

I do kind of like the tiny sawhorse idea as a back-up. If loose legs cause problems, I’ll have options and one would be to just make some tiny sawhorses and loose peg them into the top. But I’m hopeful that loose legs will work because after scouring the internet looking for loose leg examples of roman benches (spoiler alert: I only found a couple and could not ascertain much about whether or not they would work long term), I did discover that unwedged legs are pretty much standard practice for carvers’ log mules. It’s not the same thing, but I’ll consider it a proof of concept. It makes me think that the only reason you don’t see roman benches with unwedged legs is because normally you wouldn’t need to knock the legs out so why not just go ahead and wedge them?

I’ll give it a shot. We intend to build a small garden this spring so I have an actual deadline, which means it will probably get done. But first, I need to make a reamer and I have a chunk of beech and an old compass saw blade sitting on my bench waiting for me….

[steven c newman]

Project Project, helpers.JPG
Portable, folds flat when not in use. Has it's own built in vise....
Porch Project, angle set,19 degrees.JPG
I can attach a mitre box to the top...doesn't mind working outdoors, or inside..
Porch Project, Mitre saw stand.JPG
helped build my front porch deck last year..
Porch Project post. front view.JPG
Have since added a gate ...
Front Gate install, final fitting.JPG
B&D Work Mate, Type 2.....

[Jim Koepke]

B&D Work Mate

Too many of my early years were spent on one of those. It can be a wobbly, unstable work place for many tasks.

Some of my sawhorses/saw benches have been built using threaded inserts. They can be taken apart or assembled rather quickly. Care taken with lap joints and proper bracing can make them stable:

Bandsaw Horse.jpg

One pair was made to serve as bandsaw out feed tables when needed. They would take up too much room if they couldn't be knocked apart for storage.

It would be simple to make the top out of 2X12 or heavier lumber.

jtk

[ken hatch]

What am I missing, for likely less storage space, less than a couple of minutes to put it together and take apart, with each module light and small enough to easily carry, and little more build time than a set of good saw benches you can end up with a fully functional work bench. I know different things blow different skirts but if you want something almost as easy to set up as a WorkMate but functional, a portable Moravian is the best answer. I know I did the "yes but" over the subject for several years wanting something that was fully functional but would also fit in the side bins of the motorhome until I watched the Will Myers video. I knew then that I had found a portable workbench but didn't have a clue how good a workbench it would be until working on one.

Of course, as always YMMV.

ken

[Alan Schwabacher]

A simple top, perhaps made of two layers of 2x12 glued face to face, with tapered mortises and unwedged staked legs could work fine for many tasks. I would number the legs and mortises, and add an alignment mark to make sure the legs went in the same way every time.

The Moravian bench does look more capable, but would take more than the couple of hours to make of the simple version. And if you decide you need the greater capability of the Moravian, you can always repurpose the top.

[Jim Koepke]

I gotta make a reamer first though.....

Chris, if you do go the route of tapered mortises and legs could you show us the build of your reamer?

There are likely others than me who would like to see how youd do this.

TIA,

jtk

[Scott Winners]

Chris, I noticed last night in the Schwarz (Anarchist Design) book for knockdown tables he uses cylindrical rather than tapered tenons, and thus cylindrical mortises as well.

[chris carter]

What am I missing, for likely less storage space, less than a couple of minutes to put it together and take apart, with each module light and small enough to easily carry, and little more build time than a set of good saw benches you can end up with a fully functional work bench. I know different things blow different skirts but if you want something almost as easy to set up as a WorkMate but functional, a portable Moravian is the best answer. I know I did the "yes but" over the subject for several years wanting something that was fully functional but would also fit in the side bins of the motorhome until I watched the Will Myers video. I knew then that I had found a portable workbench but didn't have a clue how good a workbench it would be until working on one.

Of course, as always YMMV.

ken

For me, the thing missing from a low Moravian is the excitement. I have no doubt it would be super-efficient for work (of course, so would power tools….), but it would feel much like working on my Roubo, just lower. I want a different experience. I want something crude and utterly simple. It also would take a lot longer to build, and would probably require several trips with the parts to set it up somewhere and I just want to knock something together and go. I don’t want an electric skillet; I don’t want a cast iron skillet; I want a pointy stick and a campfire!

[chris carter]

A simple top, perhaps made of two layers of 2x12 glued face to face, with tapered mortises and unwedged staked legs could work fine for many tasks. I would number the legs and mortises, and add an alignment mark to make sure the legs went in the same way every time.

That is literally my exact plan right now. You must have hacked my computer....

[ken hatch]

For me, the thing missing from a low Moravian is the excitement. I have no doubt it would be super-efficient for work (of course, so would power tools….), but it would feel much like working on my Roubo, just lower. I want a different experience. I want something crude and utterly simple. It also would take a lot longer to build, and would probably require several trips with the parts to set it up somewhere and I just want to knock something together and go. I don’t want an electric skillet; I don’t want a cast iron skillet; I want a pointy stick and a campfire!

Chris,

Too funny .

Good luck with the build.

ken

[chris carter]

There’s not a ton of good resources for making a tapered reamer. I relied on these two texts http://www.greenwoodworking.com/SawS...redReamerPlans; https://arivinghome.wordpress.com/20...apered-reamer/; and this video which includes a fail (fails are always helpful!) https://youtu.be/DEZ3oeI-SoQ .

Feeling a bit intimidated, I set aside the beech piece of stock I milled up and grabbed some pine. Turning beech on a pole lathe is not the most fun so I didn’t want to screw up and have to start all over. Nothing is easier than pine so I figured it would be a good practice run to figure things out. Cosmetics were not a concern for this thing, just function. And it’s indeed ugly, but it does in fact work! I was under the impression that pine would be too weak, but it worked really well. In fact, I probably could get away with skipping making one from beech – but I’ll do it anyway so I have something that will last a long time (and not quite so ugly).

tapered reamer test 1.jpg
tapered reamer test 2.jpg

[Joe A Faulkner]

Looking good. Is that a file that you are using as the cuttter?

[chris carter]

Looking good. Is that a file that you are using as the cuttter?

It was a section of the blade from a compass saw that I NEVER used. I cut off the tip because the back edge sloped horrible (and if the wood gets too narrow, it lacks strength). I would have left the handle side (make a bigger hole), but the teeth were filed down (I guess for the handle?) and would have required filing off all the teeth to get down to the same level and I would have ended up with the same size hole roughly. I did have to joint the teeth straight a little (scooped in the middle) and the back a little (hump in the middle). The taper is 5 deg. I put a 25 or so degree angle on the back edge (opposite side as direction of turning, which was clockwise) and then put a hard burr on it. That, plus the exposed teeth, do the cutting. The key is that the edges should BARELY protrude from the wood blade holder.

Instead of thinking of it like you would a metal tapered reamer like you would chuck up in a drill or brace, think of it like a conical card scraper in a holder – because that’s exactly what it is.
reamer blade.jpg

[Jack Dover]

An important question: are you ready to change your methods of work? A Roman workbench assumes quite specific planing techniques for example. Also do you envision projects that require you planing and mortising in a room rather than in a workshop? Most projects around the house nowadays require a good work table, not a workbench.

A Roman workbench might also not be all that portable. How much a beam should weight so that you can stake legs into it or not sag under your body weight? If legs are not wedged, how are you going to carry it around?

I would personally go with a pair of sawhorses and 2x plank. If I'd know I will often work onsite, I'd use a 8/4" poplar beam, they're light and rigid enough for all the purposes and that's what many Japanese carpenters use as a primary workbench. In my opinion all these Roman, Lithuanian and ancient Mayan workbenches are great to write a blog about, but not very convenient for practical purposes. Unless you're Roman of course.

[Jim Koepke]

I really want a brutally simple, low Roman workbench. Mostly for fun. But I also have some expected home carpentry projects on the distant horizon so there would be some practicality to having a bench I can put in a room and go to work without having to run down to the basement woodshop every 5 minutes. That said, I have limited space in the multi-purpose basement so I need to be able to store this thing flat up against a wall and totally out of the way. And to encourage actual use of the thing, I need to be able to haul it out and slap it together in 2.5 seconds.

[edited]

Maybe both of these options really suck and someone has a better idea (other than building a mini Moravian – I’ve ruled that out). I should add that I have a pole lathe so in a worst case scenario a few years down the road if I had to make new legs, it would not be a problem.

An important question: are you ready to change your methods of work? A Roman workbench assumes quite specific planing techniques for example. Also do you envision projects that require you planing and mortising in a room rather than in a workshop? Most projects around the house nowadays require a good work table, not a workbench.

A Roman workbench might also not be all that portable. How much a beam should weight so that you can stake legs into it or not sag under your body weight? If legs are not wedged, how are you going to carry it around?

[edited]

Sometimes we wander far from the original intent. One of my thoughts was about all of the portable or traveling bench concepts posted here in the past.

Here is a golden oldie > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?38637

Chris mentions his intent of using this for some household work. He likely won't be using this for sticking new molding or planing rough lumber for window surrounds. It is most likely to be used like a decked out saw bench. Something to saw a piece to final length or for mitering/coping a corner joint. A support for shooting a piece for a fine fit, not banging out a mortise.

It would likely be a simple matter to make a holder for the legs on the underside of the top to keep it all together in storage or when moving. It could even accommodate multiple leg sizes to provide for different heights for different work.

jtk