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Thread: hickory table top changed color

  1. #1
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    hickory table top changed color

    DARN

    My friend/customer was so happy with the recent table I built for her. I gave her major friend pricing despite really sinking time into this, so I'm already working at a loss on this one.

    The top was kiln dried hickory that had been in the sawmill's temp and humidity controlled storage garage for over 2 years. The materials acclimated at my temp controlled shop for a couple weeks before stock preparation. Building the top took another week.

    After that, sanded with the grain to 220 and carefully checked for swirl marks as I went.

    Two coats of minwax "early american" stain were applied and allowed to to dry a day in between, and then a week before poly (regularly rag rubbing the top multiple times each day to ensure even coverage).

    Three coats of satin poly applied with light sanding, steel wool in between.

    Top looked great under LED lighting, incandescent lighting, under bright flashlight shone at various angles, and then outside in 100% natural light on a bright and sunny day.

    Client had a friend pickup the table over a week after the final coat of poly was applied. He also verified the table looked great before we carefully and entirely covered the top with a blanket, used some scrap lumber to protect the top from ratchet straps. The scraps and straps were nowhere near where this issue appears now.

    He told me he would park the car in his enclosed (but not heated/cooled) garage for a week and then delivered to the customer.

    Now, a week later, she sends me a picture showing a clear stripe across the grain.

    Every operation (from stock prep to card scraping to sanding to stain to poly... all of it) was with the grain, never across the grain (and definitely not perfectly across the grain).

    The ratchet straps and protection were nowhere near the affected spot.

    Aside from careful inspection during the build and finishing, multiple pictures, multiple lighting, multiple angles show that this defect was NOT present upon pickup. We've looked at close ups very carefully and see no issue.

    But now it looks like someone applied masking tape and literally/purposely finished a portion of the table differently. The finish sheen even looks different. (She cannot think of any mishaps / mistakes that occurred during transport etc.)

    I don't understand Hickory to be especially UV sensitive. I don't see how a moving blanket or straps in another location could cause a problem. The table was not wet, nor did it sit for a long period in unusual conditions.

    What the heck?


    Right now, I told the customer to place the table near a window for a couple weeks with nothing obscuring any portion of the top. The "let time try to heal it" approach.


    For me to refinish the table again will be a huge loss on my side (table is 2.5 hours away, and I've already lost money on an hourly basis due to "friend" pricing on this).


    Anyone have any ideas on how this could have occurred, and/or how I can remedy? (I've included a pic in sunlight and a pic in my shop to show no blemish... vs. her picture from today showing the issue... see the horizontal line on this side of the vase at center of table)

    hickory table 2.jpg hickory top no blemish.jpghickory top discoloration.jpg
    - Bob R.
    Collegeville PA (30 minutes west of Philly)

  2. #2
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    The straightness of that line is, um....troubling....if you catch my drift...
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  3. #3
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    Do you mean that customer likely did something and isn’t being forthcoming about it?
    - Bob R.
    Collegeville PA (30 minutes west of Philly)

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Riefer View Post
    Do you mean that customer likely did something and isn’t being forthcoming about it?
    That would be my first thought....hopefully, you have photos from similar angles that show the table didn't have that hard line when you released it to the customer. You may still get stuck dealing with it (may require a re-finish of the top) but at least you'll know that you may have a chance for charging for the time and material. This kind of thing is why I enjoy making components for other makers more than making things for direct customers.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Riefer View Post
    Do you mean that customer likely did something and isn’t being forthcoming about it?
    for sure. something hot, or it had something wet on it for some time, like a wet folded up table cloth or towel. maybe they ironed something? who knows. . . but that's caused by neglect.

  6. #6
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    Thanks guys!! I greatly appreciate it. I was worried I had really missed something so I'm glad all the details above helped prove out that I'm not nuts. More soon
    - Bob R.
    Collegeville PA (30 minutes west of Philly)

  7. #7
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    That uber-straight line is definitely a defining clue that "something is amiss"...
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  8. #8
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    For good measure... when she first put the table in her cabin, she was so excited and sent me a video. I've taken a still from that and saved here as a picture. Although the pic is a bit dark, would you all agree that there's no line present here? (would be left of center)
    Attached Images Attached Images
    - Bob R.
    Collegeville PA (30 minutes west of Philly)

  9. #9
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    The photo is very small, but I don't see any marking like in the one in your OP.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  10. #10
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    It's best I have after it left my shop... small and blurry, but I agree... upon zooming, I see nothing like in the pic she sent today.

    I've (nicely) stated to her that something must have happened after it left my shop for XYZ reasons, and that in order to provide best remedy options I'll need her to think really hard about anything that could have impacted that portion of the table. She said she'll noodle on that over the weekend.

    Meantime... are there any tricks worth trying (as opposed to sanding/refinishing)? Like rubbing the top out with something? Any merit to my initial grasping-at-straws suggestion to let it age in the sun under the window when they're not at the cabin for the next couple weeks? Other ideas?

    Thanks again!
    - Bob R.
    Collegeville PA (30 minutes west of Philly)

  11. #11
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    May be able to just rub it out to insure that things are flat and then recoat with the proper sheen. But if there's an actual color difference on either side of that line that was not caused merely by light exposure, it may need to be refinished. Too many variables to know from afar. But regardless...that really bites!
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  12. #12
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    Someone'S not tellong the truth. You didn't cause that to happen nor should you be on the hook to fix it without compensation. To me it looks like a change in sheen, like something wet was left on it, or maybe a piece of plastic. I've had a couple of problems when people left plastic/rubber things on a top, where the plasticizers reacted with the finish. Both times it left a shiney spot, however, not a lower sheen. But I suspect other materials/chemicals could cause a lower sheen. I know water can.
    If you can't feel any difference in the damaged area from the good area then you might be able to buff it out. If it feels thin or rough then you will likely have to at least scuff sand and apply more finish. Hopefully, you'll be able to avoid a complete refinish. However it turns out, make sure you get paid for the work.

    John

  13. #13
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    I agree. I have painstakingly reviewed the pics close up and it’s clear something happened after delivery and after she sent her original picture. I asked her if she tried to strip the table or did something else accidental but she is avoiding answering. I’m going to get her on the phone this weekend to talk it out because something is fishy for sure.
    - Bob R.
    Collegeville PA (30 minutes west of Philly)

  14. #14
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    Over my 40 plus years of cabinet making I have made dozens of kitchens using hickory/ rustic hickory and can bet the farm that none of my cabinets or raised panel doors have ever changed color by its self such as yours.I hate to say it but some one is not being truthful. You have before pictures at delivery and it was great looking, no problem. Man, I hate confronting a customer, but stand your ground.
    Remember,What goes around, comes around.

  15. #15
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    Thank you! I really put 100% into my projects and take pride in really trying to do things properly, so this one is a bummer... but at least I can feel good that I did my part. What really stinks is that this customer works at my actual place of employment (woodworking is hobby + slow trickle of sales), so even if not my fault it may be mine to fix.

    My plan right now is:
    - Talk to her on the phone today (vs. email / text where questions are being dodged) and explain the equation... if it looked great at my house from any angle and any light, looked great when it was picked up, looked great when you placed it in the cabin, and now it suddenly has an unmistakable stripe.... well then... something happened while it was at your place.

    - While on the phone I want to determine... are we dealing with color AND sheen change (i.e. someone tried to strip the finish) or just one or the other?

    - So, here's a few things you can try on your own (and if you guys can gut check me please):

    If you feel that the color and sheen are different, I would recommend using <specific color which I have in the barn but forget right now> Poly Shades. This is color AND polyurethane in one product. Apply with a brush or rag liberally to the affected area, wait a couple minutes, use a rag going with the grain to remove the Poly Shade. As you go the rag will become saturated, use the saturated rag to "clean" / rub out the unaffected side. At the end, use a fresh rag to give the entire top a rub down. The hope with this approach is that the tint in the Poly Shades will become "spread" across the entire surface (but with an emphasis on the affected area) and allow all to blend. After the surface dries, a rub down with a rag or steel wool. Repeat steps as needed to reach desired look. Make sure to carefully let stain soaked rags dry properly and completely.

    If you feel that there's only a sheen difference, apply <specific brand/sheen> poly only to the affected area, with the slightest and lightest overlap to the good portion. Allow to dry per instructions on the can, and rub out the affected area and (with slightly more emphasis to the overlap area) with steel wool. Wipe off with clean rag. Repeat these steps 1 or 2 more times.

    If not interested in either of these approaches, we can reach an agreement to adequately compensate me for my time to pickup, entirely sand, refinish the top, and return the table so that it is again where it was when it left my shop in the first place.



    What do you guys think of these proposed mitigation options?
    - Bob R.
    Collegeville PA (30 minutes west of Philly)

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