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Thread: Oneida Super Dust Gorilla - Not starting

  1. #16
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    Make your measurement across the two hot wires, looking for 240 volts. Measuring one wire at a time to ground will not show a problem if you have one leg open. The open leg side will still show 120 volts to ground since current can flow from the good leg, through the motor (or the control transformer in the switch), to your meter. If I was a betting man, I'd bet one leg of your 240 is open.

    An alternate way to test would be to connect some other 240 volt load (if you have one) to the same circuit, or connect your motor to a different 240 volt circuit.
    --Certainty is the refuge of a small mind--

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul F Franklin View Post
    Make your measurement across the two hot wires, looking for 240 volts. Measuring one wire at a time to ground will not show a problem if you have one leg open. The open leg side will still show 120 volts to ground since current can flow from the good leg, through the motor (or the control transformer in the switch), to your meter. If I was a betting man, I'd bet one leg of your 240 is open.

    An alternate way to test would be to connect some other 240 volt load (if you have one) to the same circuit, or connect your motor to a different 240 volt circuit.
    I believe I found the problem. We recently had AC installed in our house. Contractor took power from the subpanel in my garage shop to connect power the AC unit. The outlet feeding the cyclone is wired from the subpanel. All my other outlets were still working after this installation. When I attempted to measure 240V by across two hot wires at the motor, I was getting a very low reading, close to zero, despite reading around 115V across each leg and ground. Then I went back and did the same measurement across the two hot ports on the outlet, I also got near zero reading, despite measuring 115V at each hot wire and ground combo. Does this mean the HVAC contractor changed the wiring to basically connect both hot wires to the same line from the subpanel, instead of two separate lines?

    My other 240V outlets accept a different plug type than the cyclone. I will swap one of the plugs from another machine to test the cyclone motor on a different circuit and I bet it will work just fine.
    Last edited by Frank Martin; 11-18-2020 at 10:11 PM.

  3. #18
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    Assuming your DC circuit is connected to a two pole breaker in the sub panel, it would be difficult for both wires to be connected to the same leg since the sub panel is designed so every other slot goes to a different leg of the 240. More likely to be a loose connection somewhere. Perhaps the contractor moved breakers around to make room for the AC breaker and knocked a wire loose. Make sure the contractor didn't move the DC circuit to two single pole breakers; they could be on the same leg.
    --Certainty is the refuge of a small mind--

  4. #19
    I would not swap anything around. Simply measure voltage between phases in your motor starter. L1 to L3, you should measure 240 volts. If not go to the sub panel and check voltage.

    It would be uncommon to burn up a motor starter AND have the motor windings short open. (Like, buy a lot ticket).

    240 volt single phase must be measured phase to phase. Phase to ground may not tell you if you are missing one phase, which is probably your problem. Or, a slim possibility that you have two of the same phase.

    Your motor starter is meant to, among other things, protect motors from overload and loss of one phase. I find it rarely productive to force them closed. It's always better to start with trouble shooting.

  5. #20
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    I do not see the terminal panel. it states J&J are thermostat leads. if installed. I doubt it has them. I was thinking a red button on the outside to reset a overload click set type overload.
    It is odd that both run and start windings failed at the same time.
    I agree with above new info. You do not have two seperate hot phases. the red and black wires are the same phase so all you have is nothing.
    Bil lD
    Last edited by Bill Dufour; 11-18-2020 at 11:45 PM.

  6. #21
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    Some one screwed up on the original install. the two hots coming in are red and white. When the electrician worked on the other end he assumed the white wire was neutral, as code requires. Green or bare is ground, white is neutral, any other color is hot. You can mark them permanently at both ends and use them how you want but I bet neither end is marked . I know the end in the switch box is not marked.
    Bill D

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Dufour View Post
    Some one screwed up on the original install. the two hots coming in are red and white. When the electrician worked on the other end he assumed the white wire was neutral, as code requires. Green or bare is ground, white is neutral, any other color is hot. You can mark them permanently at both ends and use them how you want but I bet neither end is marked . I know the end in the switch box is not marked.
    Bill D
    Pictures show only the wiring on the cyclone as it came from Oneida 12 years ago. I will check the wire colors inside the outlet to see if a hot leg is white causing confusion to the HVAC guy.

  8. #23
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    Frank,

    Take a step by step approach:

    0. Be safe! If you aren't comfortable performing the following, just call an electrician.

    1. Start at the sub panel. Measure across the two terminals of the two pole breaker controlling the DC circuit. You should measure close to 240 volts with the breaker on. If you don't, try resetting the breaker. If you still don't, then you have a bad breaker. If the DC circuit doesn't go to a two pole breaker, you need either need to install one, or run it to two single pole breakers in adjoining slots and install a breaker tie bar that joins the two breaker handles (A piece of stiff wire that fits through the holes in the handles works), effectively creating a two pole breaker. While you are here, make sure (with the breaker off!) that the terminal screws securing the wires to the breaker are nice and tight, and that the breaker is fully seated in the panel.

    2. If you have 240 volts at the breaker, move to the receptacle for the DC. Check across the two hot terminals of the receptacle for 240 volts. If you don't have it, you have a bad connection or break in the wiring between the sub panel and the receptacle. If you do, carry on.

    3. Measure across L1 and L3 at the contactor (switch box). You should measure 240 volts there. If you don't, you have a bad connection or break in the wiring between the receptacle and the switch box.

    I believe you will find the problem at one of the above steps.
    --Certainty is the refuge of a small mind--

  9. #24
    "If the DC circuit doesn't go to a two pole breaker, you need either need to install one, or run it to two single pole breakers in adjoining slots and install a breaker tie bar that joins the two breaker handles (A piece of stiff wire that fits through the holes in the handles works), effectively creating a two pole breaker. "

    I would guess this what was already done. I don't believe this meets code. The reason being, if there is a fault on one phase, only one phase will trip. A 2 pole breaker has an internal common trip and should be used.

  10. #25
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    I tried to run cyclone by connecting to another 230V outlet. It did start. I turned off quickly as I had disconnected it from ducting. Tried turning on again right afterwards, this time no response. I think my problem
    is the wiring of the dedicated circuit. I will check again after that problem
    is fixed.

    Thank you for helping me troubleshoot this.

  11. #26
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    I am now able start the cyclone consistently on another circuit. So, it is definitely the wiring problem created during the AC install on the original circuit. Thanks again for the help in troubleshooting.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Martin View Post
    I am now able start the cyclone consistently on another circuit. So, it is definitely the wiring problem created during the AC install on the original circuit. Thanks again for the help in troubleshooting.
    Good to hear! Let us know what you find.
    --Certainty is the refuge of a small mind--

  13. #28
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    Thermal overload on the motor tripped?

    Did you actually measure 240 volts at the motor or did you measure to ground?

    Regards, Rod

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