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Thread: Grizzly GO862 vs Laguna - c | flux 2

  1. #1
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    Grizzly GO862 vs Laguna - c | flux 2

    It is time to beat the dust and upgrade from my 1hp roll-around DC with 30 micron bags to something a bit more powerful and one that is all pipe in. Moving the 6"DC has always slowed me down and I it takes away from the fun, and of course health reasons.

    So - My current setup consists of:

    -6" Jointer - 4 inch port
    -Miter Saw with dust scoop behind it with a 4" port
    -Drill Press that has a 2 1/2 inch shapeable flex hose (I just connect to my shop vac as of now)
    -contractor table saw. I covered the back by the motor as best I could and put in a 4" dust port on the bottom
    -bench top 12 1/2 inch planer with 4" port
    -router table with the bottom boxed out with 4" port with a 4x4x2.5 wye and 2.5 connected to the back of the fence
    -14" bandsaw with a pair of 4" ports currently connected with a 4x4x4 wye to the DC (very inefficient)

    -Small tools like hand sanders I connect to my shop vac with hepa filter - and of course clogs fast

    --- I only use 1 tool at time and will have blast gates and each drop.

    Future hopeful upgrades
    - table saw upgrade to 3hp saw stop cabinet saw
    - the larger dewalt 13" planner and upgrade to helical blades

    Shop space is about 25x20, and I plan to put the dust collector against the wall in the center of one wall and run a main truck down the middle of the room and branch off from there.

    So - from a budget standpoint, the Grizzly 3hp delivered is a few hundred cheaper than the 2hp Laguna. I know a 3hp Oneida V system 3000 would be great but it's out a bit out of my price range.


    Any thoughts on 3hp or would 2hp be enough and Grizzly ($1440 delivered) vs Laguna ($1638 delivered) I am also open to suggestions in the same price range.


    Thanks

    Justin

  2. #2
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    Short cone cyclones do not perform as well with separation as long cone designs. So were it me, I'd try really hard to get to the V3000 or a Clearview or a larger Grizzly with long cone designs.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  3. #3
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    i understand the separation isn't as good, however the others are out of my budget. The Grizzly GO441 would be an option but it's bending the budget. the 2hp GO440 is out of stock and I called Grizzly and they are not going to get anymore, it is being discontinued.

  4. #4
    Could you go with the Grizzly g0672 5HP unit and add their g0863 cyclone? The cyclone is large and still comes in less than either of your other options. You could add a pair of cartridge filters later on if you want. That is what I would do. There is no substitute for a larger impeller and more horse power so that would be the way I would go. You would never need to upgrade again.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby Robbinett View Post
    Could you go with the Grizzly g0672 5HP unit and add their g0863 cyclone? The cyclone is large and still comes in less than either of your other options. You could add a pair of cartridge filters later on if you want. That is what I would do. There is no substitute for a larger impeller and more horse power so that would be the way I would go. You would never need to upgrade again.
    I couldn't.... That is 134 inches tall, I don't have 11 feet of ceiling or the floor space for both units. i have about 90 inches in my basement so that rules out some of the taller models. I also don't think the g0863 would have any better separation than a short cone all-in-one cyclone. Thanks for the suggestion, using the g0863 could open the door to hooking it up to say G0548ZP, but still has it's downsides - and only 2hp with a lot of draw.

  6. #6
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    I also don't think the g0863 would have any better separation than a short cone all-in-one cyclone
    What makes you think this ? Marketing ? A background in fluid mechanics ?

    The physics don’t lie - a long cone produces better separation than a short one. Your other observations and concerns are valid. Because it’d be a home brew setup, it’s hard to predict what the airflow would be at the ends of your duct runs.


    grizzly is going to be the better cyclone everyday of the week, twice on Sunday. Especially long term , after you factor the added filter cost of the laguna.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Sabo View Post
    What makes you think this ? Marketing ? A background in fluid mechanics ?

    The physics don’t lie - a long cone produces better separation than a short one. Your other observations and concerns are valid. Because it’d be a home brew setup, it’s hard to predict what the airflow would be at the ends of your duct runs.


    grizzly is going to be the better cyclone everyday of the week, twice on Sunday. Especially long term , after you factor the added filter cost of the laguna.
    The Grizzly Growler (Go863) has reviewed poorly due to what some (including me) would call a design problem. The "vacuum equalizing system" runs a pipe horizontally through the cyclone's internal pathway. I think we are just saying that there are better "bolt on" cyclones out there if you are going to go that direction.

    I am in the no-short-cones camp to be sure. So many folks have tried the Laguna's, Jet's, and others thinking that they will be the exception. Generally these folks seem to follow up their "Hooray, my cyclone is here!" threads with a "Why does my filter clog so fast?" thread. I can't imagine why Grizzly went with the interrupted flow design. It seems an unforgivable flaw in an otherwise solid design.
    Last edited by glenn bradley; 11-24-2020 at 4:27 PM.
    I always forget . . . Is it the letter "S" or the letter "C" that is silent in the word scent?
    - Glenn (the second "N" is silent) Bradley

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by glenn bradley View Post
    The Grizzly Growler (Go863) has reviewed poorly due to what some (including me) would call a design problem. The "vacuum equalizing system" runs a pipe horizontally through the cyclone's internal pathway. I think we are just saying that there are better "bolt on" cyclones out there if you are going to go that direction.

    I am in the no-short-cones camp to be sure. So many folks have tried the Laguna's, Jet's, and others thinking that they will be the exception. Generally these folks seem to follow up their "Hooray, my cyclone is here!" threads with a "Why does my filter clog so fast?" thread. I can't imagine why Grizzly went with the interrupted flow design. It seems an unforgivable flaw in an otherwise solid design.
    My Laguna p|flux works just fine.

    Those super tall cyclones, has anyone tried mounting them at a 30 degree angle? Like, just mount it to a piece of plywood and _tilt_ it.

    As for me, Iíd like to be able to _hear_ when a hurricane or tornado is approaching my shop. :^)

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Sabo View Post
    What makes you think this ? Marketing ? A background in fluid mechanics ?

    The physics donít lie - a long cone produces better separation than a short one. Your other observations and concerns are valid. Because itíd be a home brew setup, itís hard to predict what the airflow would be at the ends of your duct runs.


    grizzly is going to be the better cyclone everyday of the week, twice on Sunday. Especially long term , after you factor the added filter cost of the laguna.
    So, to answer your question about fluid mechanics, I hold a HVACR license - i know a little bit about air-flow movement - however getting some thoughts from people who have the machines I was looking at or set-up DC systems similar in size /equipment to mine, gauges from their experiences it would help me steer to one machine or the other.

    I am leaning more towards Grizzly, and would have already pulled the trigger on the 3hp G0441 - but have a ceiling height issue. It does say you can shorten the height by using a 30g bin instead of 55 - but didn't get clear confirmation on that when i talk to Grizzly.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Rapp View Post
    So, to answer your question about fluid mechanics, I hold a HVACR license - i know a little bit about air-flow movement - however getting some thoughts from people who have the machines I was looking at or set-up DC systems similar in size /equipment to mine, gauges from their experiences it would help me steer to one machine or the other.

    I am leaning more towards Grizzly, and would have already pulled the trigger on the 3hp G0441 - but have a ceiling height issue. It does say you can shorten the height by using a 30g bin instead of 55 - but didn't get clear confirmation on that when i talk to Grizzly.
    I have the same height issues, and serious ceiling obstruction issues, and Iím quite happy with my Laguna p|flux 1. My machines are a bit more demanding than yours, the ďworstĒ of them being a Powermatic 15HH planer, which works best with no more than a 10 foot hose. I _have_ to roll the collector around to the machines because I canít do overhead piping, but the collector rolls around so easily that itís not an issue (I can move it with my little finger.) So plumbing length is not a concern here.

    If you _must_ do overhead pipe, 2hp would be a practical minimum. (I would have sprung for the p|flux 3 in this case, but thatís above your price point.)

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Dawson View Post
    I have the same height issues, and serious ceiling obstruction issues, and I’m quite happy with my Laguna p|flux 1. My machines are a bit more demanding than yours, the “worst” of them being a Powermatic 15HH planer, which works best with no more than a 10 foot hose. I _have_ to roll the collector around to the machines because I can’t do overhead piping, but the collector rolls around so easily that it’s not an issue (I can move it with my little finger.) So plumbing length is not a concern here.

    If you _must_ do overhead pipe, 2hp would be a practical minimum. (I would have sprung for the p|flux 3 in this case, but that’s above your price point.)
    I am now on the 3hp camp and that would push me into a cFlux 3 if i go Laguna. I sent an e-mail to Laguna with some of my pipe length runs, specifically my Laguna band saw, and got the 'you need 3hp to pull for that run on that tool'. I was almost ready to pull the trigger on the GO862, due to price, but found a you tube video review on it and the unit just looks like it is very poor quality with bad welds, parts not fitting well, etc. I've learned in the past not to buy tools that I have quality concerns about, and thanks to this video review, I deleted from my cart.

    So now I am between the cFlux3 and the Jet JCDC-3 3HP. They are the same price right now with both having 15% discount. The jet saves me $99 shipping. I have a Laguna Bandsaw and Jointer and a Jet Table Saw and Drill Press. So loyal to both brands.
    Last edited by Jim Becker; 11-26-2020 at 11:38 AM. Reason: fixed quote tagging

  12. #12
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    While my (older) 2hp Oneida performs well, if I had a do-over, I'd want 3hp minimum for a similar setup in a similar sized shop. I have adequate collection for sure, but I'm also doing more an more with "two tools" running simultaneously now since I added the CNC to the mix and do other work while it's running. A little more CFM would be beneficial for that as well as for collection from the J/P and when I choose to use the overhead collection on the table saw in addition to under blade collection.

    While we often talk about this in terms of horsepower, and that's certainly a factor, what you tend to get with the extra horsepower is a larger blower. That can more more air which overcomes some of the inherent resistance that comes with duct work...even the best engineered duct work...which means more air flow. So if you can afford to move up that step and accommodate it physically in your shop, it's going to be the better long term investment.

    BTW, I do agree with your desire for quality, especially given what the investment for good tools has move up to these days.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

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