Rob Cosman and Veritas Handplanes?

[Bryan Lisowski]

I like Rob, I know my skills with hand tools have improved a lot by watching and following his technique. I have no problem with him using his videos as an infomercial. He makes the tools, he should be able to sell in a method that works for his business. I find it better that he is selling his stuff, rather than him taking tools or sponsorships like a lot of content creators, who aren't subject experts and are all over the map, based on who is paying the freight.

[Jason Buresh]

He's not in my list of youtubers I seek to learn something interesting. Take a look at this video https://youtu.be/PSPARIqbeZA, his claims about the use of a Bailey no. 4 smoother are just nonsensical to me.

I probably dont have enough merit to comment on this, but I have to say i think that is a bit of a weak argument. Im not going to list my no 4 for sale and rush out to buy a 4-1/2 because i have man hands. I dont find my no 4 that uncomfortable.

I respect Rob and appreciate what he does for the veterans, but i disagree with him here.

[Pete Taran]

I think it's bunk. If 4s were made for kids, and 4 1/2s made for adults, then why are there so few 4 1/2s? I mean once all the schools had an army of 4s, there would not need to be anymore produced. Ergo, there would be 10 4 1/2s to every 4 you see in the wild.

In actuality, you see 100 4s before you see a single 4 1/2. Perhaps all the 150# adults with medium to large hands loved them so much that they were buried with them when they passed. (that's Cosman logic there).

[Jason Lester]

I took one of his classes a few years ago. It was a great experience and he's a good instructor. He definitely stressed that his tools were the best. I did buy his saw and marking knife prior to the class since I needed both anyway. The saw is great, but I don't care for the marking knife. I used my Veritas plane and Knew fretsaw though. The really weird thing I thought was that he wrapped his handles with hockey tape, must be a Canadian thing? He also uses a ballpoint pen for marking, which seems odd.

[Bill Carey]

I took one of his classes a few years ago. It was a great experience and he's a good instructor. He definitely stressed that his tools were the best. I did buy his saw and marking knife prior to the class since I needed both anyway. The saw is great, but I don't care for the marking knife. I used my Veritas plane and Knew fretsaw though. The really weird thing I thought was that he wrapped his handles with hockey tape, must be a Canadian thing? He also uses a ballpoint pen for marking, which seems odd.

No comment on the pen, but the hockey tapering works great. I have some 4" clamps with small handles that were pretty hard to tighten before I taped them up..

[Jim Koepke]

These type of discussions in the hand tool arena are always interesting. People become very sensitive about everything. I think some of the posts show a high degree of personal involvement.

Rob used to participate on SMC. He was pitching his IBC blades a bit too much. My memory is a bit fuzzy on what he claimed his connection was to Veritas blades. That caused a bit of a caustic situation. He would insist the blade was the most important part of the plane so therefore all one needed to turn an old plane into a new LN was one of his blades.

My #4-1/2 is a cherished plane but my #3s & #4s are used more often.

People become sensitive about things in which they have invested time and/or money. We develop personal involvement with our beliefs. Some find ways of doing something that do not make sense, yet the method works for them. Maybe it is just their belief making it work. It is almost a religious experience which brings on "a high degree of personal involvement."

jtk

[Jason Buresh]

I have no evidence to back this up, but if I had to guess i think it was a marketing strategy. The 4-1/2 came out in the 1884 I believe, and the #4 had been around since 1869. I have a coffin smoother that has a wider iron than my no 4, so maybe Stanley produced a little wider iron plane to try and convert some stubborn craftsmen that were bent on using wooden planes.

Patrick Leach also makes a convincing argument that these were competition ro the infill planes across the pond.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I don’t think Paul Sellers encourages anyone to buy new stuff either. Different audience demographics maybe.

I would like to think that it is his preferred style or how he works and that the demographics are based on what he does as opposed to Paul choosing a style to get to some specific demographic.

[chris carter]

I’ve watched an awful lot of Rob Cosman videos. His talent is ridiculous. He is also a somewhat shameless salesman. That’s not a criticism because he can do what he wants in his videos – I’m a business owner and you gotta make money. His biases in gear are rather obtuse, and I do appreciate that he acknowledges it, but it’s so over the top that I pretty much ignore any recommendations he makes. This morning a block plane shootout showed up in my youtube feed and before hitting play I said “He’s going to recommend Wood River, LN will get a consolation prize, and Veritas will not be included because it will come in as good or maybe even better so he’ll exclude that bit of competition.” I was 100% correct.

As a teacher he explains things REALLY well in a manner that even a total newbie can clearly understand. But I also realized this morning that I’ve never actually learned anything from him despite watching him from my birth in hand toolery. I think that’s because he’s obsessed with chasing the absolute best technical precision possible, even if it’s overly complicated. I have no interest in spending an hour making a single dovetail joint, by way of example. Yes, his dovetails are immaculate, but I can easily find other woodworking masters who make dovetails, or joint boards, etc., in a 10^th the time and I cannot tell any difference in the finished product. I’m not saying that trying to find the holy grail in technical precision isn’t a worthy goal if that’s what someone enjoys, just to be clear. Everyone has to find what makes them happy in woodworking and then just do that, whatever it is.

[mike stenson]

No comment on the pen, but the hockey tapering works great. I have some 4" clamps with small handles that were pretty hard to tighten before I taped them up..

Yea, the hockey tape is brilliant for adding a lot of grip easily and quickly. Especially if you're at all sweaty (an issue here most of the year).

[Warren Mickley]

I think it's bunk. If 4s were made for kids, and 4 1/2s made for adults, then why are there so few 4 1/2s? I mean once all the schools had an army of 4s, there would not need to be anymore produced. Ergo, there would be 10 4 1/2s to every 4 you see in the wild.

In actuality, you see 100 4s before you see a single 4 1/2. Perhaps all the 150# adults with medium to large hands loved them so much that they were buried with them when they passed. (that's Cosman logic there).

There is so much bunk that it is hard to sort out what is misconception, what is deception, what is hype, and what is ignorance. Maybe all come into play.

[chris carter]

I honestly thought he was joking about No. 4's being made for kids. I mean, nobody can reasonably take that rationale seriously.

[Pete Taran]

Sure didn't seem like he was joking. He even went on to describe why it was that way with kids when the grow up going back to what they knew from technical school. Flights of fancy

[Jim Koepke]

Cosman is likely making as much money selling as he is teaching. Almost everyone already has a #4. The salesperson is trying to convince them what they really need is a shiny new #4-1/2.

Of course the people who are paying him to push their product is going to be the maker of the best one to be found.

Money can do a lot to mold a person's opinion.

jtk

[Jason Buresh]

Cosman is likely making as much money selling as he is teaching. Almost everyone already has a #4. The salesperson is trying to convince them what they really need is a shiny new #4-1/2.

Of course the people who are paying him to push their product is going to be the maker of the best one to be found.

Money can do a lot to mold a person's opinion.

jtk

I did not see where he made a convincing argument where the 4-1/2 is better than the 4. Instead there was a baseless claim trying to appeal to bravado and manliness than actual function. If you are still using a number 4 you are either adolescent or less of a man is what he made it sound like.

He did a good job highlighting the feature differences between the 2, but did not explain why these features are superior. I am assuming that a wider iron would be an advantage when working larger panels. Thicker castings are a plus, and extra weight can be an advantage or disadvantage depending on what you are doing.

I guess i am disappointed that a man with as much experience and knowledge as him did not go more in depth how the 4-1/2 would be a useful addition to my tool kit.