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Thread: Rob Cosman and Veritas Handplanes?

  1. #1

    Rob Cosman and Veritas Handplanes?

    I really enjoy the videos put out by Rob Cosman. In a recent one about old versus new handplanes Veritas was conspicuously left out of the equation. It's hard to imagine that it was simply overlooked. Any reason for the snub?

  2. #2
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    I would expect it’s because he competes against them. Lie-Nielsen planes are pretty pricey in Canada so Veritas is often the brand his Wood River has to beat.

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    He has explicitly stated that he will not (can't or won't?) comment on Veritas.
    I don't know specifically why, but I'm sure we all have guesses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Publicover View Post
    I would expect it’s because he competes against them. Lie-Nielsen planes are pretty pricey in Canada so Veritas is often the brand his Wood River has to beat.
    I thought WoodRiver was Woodcraft's brand. Is Woodcraft featuring Cosman's tools?
    Brian

    "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger or more complicated...it takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." - E.F. Schumacher

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Tymchak View Post
    I thought WoodRiver was Woodcraft's brand. Is Woodcraft featuring Cosman's tools?
    Rob Cosman's site states to see Woodcraft's site in the US as he doesn't ship them here. I suspect there may little comparison between Wood River and Veritas.
    Dick Mahany.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Tymchak View Post
    I thought WoodRiver was Woodcraft's brand. Is Woodcraft featuring Cosman's tools?
    I think he was a consultant, and is the Canadian distributor (like he used to be for Lie Nielsen)
    Last edited by mike stenson; 11-09-2020 at 12:43 PM.
    ~mike

    scope creep

  7. #7
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    Rob's company is the supplier of Woodriver planes in Canada. I'm not sure of the full relationship he has with Woodcraft. He's said he was hired as a consultant to develop the planes by Woodcraft, so there is / was some relationship. I'm not sure if there are any other Woodriver tools he has.

    At the Toronto (Virtual) Wood Show he was pushing IBC chisels. I vaguely remember some Woodriver/Woodcraft and IBC collaboration being implied on a forum. Given the nature of contract manufacturing in China, it may be no more than they source similar products from the same factories.

    After listening to several of his presentations this weekend, two traits stood out. First, he is really good at demonstrating and explaining things. A great teacher. Second, there is a strong undercurrent, even explicit at times, that he is showing the one "true" technique and using the "best" available tool. Usually accompanied with a we stock the only tool(s) you'll ever really want in our store message. His message would have been easier for me to accept if he'd presented his techniques & tools as "something that works well for me" or as "something that consistently works well for my students" while leaving open the possibility of alternate approaches.

    (In contrast, the "Vic & Steve" show was equally informative and more enjoyable to me. Vic Tesolin and Steve Der-Garabedian are friends who formed a not really ready for primetime comedy duo and presented everything as "this is one way to do this you might not have thought of" or "this is quick and easy and good enough for some situations". By leaving open the possibility of alternatives they left me feeling they were expanding, instead of contracting, my knowledge.)

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Bassett View Post
    Rob's company is the supplier of Woodriver planes in Canada. I'm not sure of the full relationship he has with Woodcraft. He's said he was hired as a consultant to develop the planes by Woodcraft, so there is / was some relationship. I'm not sure if there are any other Woodriver tools he has.

    At the Toronto (Virtual) Wood Show he was pushing IBC chisels. I vaguely remember some Woodriver/Woodcraft and IBC collaboration being implied on a forum. Given the nature of contract manufacturing in China, it may be no more than they source similar products from the same factories.

    After listening to several of his presentations this weekend, two traits stood out. First, he is really good at demonstrating and explaining things. A great teacher. Second, there is a strong undercurrent, even explicit at times, that he is showing the one "true" technique and using the "best" available tool. Usually accompanied with a we stock the only tool(s) you'll ever really want in our store message. His message would have been easier for me to accept if he'd presented his techniques & tools as "something that works well for me" or as "something that consistently works well for my students" while leaving open the possibility of alternate approaches.

    (In contrast, the "Vic & Steve" show was equally informative and more enjoyable to me. Vic Tesolin and Steve Der-Garabedian are friends who formed a not really ready for primetime comedy duo and presented everything as "this is one way to do this you might not have thought of" or "this is quick and easy and good enough for some situations". By leaving open the possibility of alternatives they left me feeling they were expanding, instead of contracting, my knowledge.)
    I watched Rob's presentation at a Calgary wood show many years ago. He was the Canadian distributor for Lie Nielsen then & I bought a rabbit block plane from him at that show. He is a very good teacher, explains things well, and has the chops to back up what he talks about.

    But like you, David, I was really put off by his attitude that the tools he uses and the way he uses them, are really the only acceptable way for things to be. I still occasionally watch his videos and the content is mostly very good. But he still has that same attitude that just spoils it for me.

  9. #9
    I have Wood River, LV and LN planes in my shop. I'm a HUGE fan of LV. But if Cosman is the Canadian distributor for Wood River (or whatever he calls it), I wouldn't expect him to endorse or discuss the competition. And if he comes on too strong for "his" brand, that's a business decision, good or bad. He isnt the only one - it happens on a carving site I frequent, and probably other places too.

    I've tried his online classes and agree he's a pretty good teacher. I just choose to ignore his sales pitches.

    YMMV.
    Fred
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
    - Sir Edmund Burke

  10. #10
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    So it's not just me. Yeah I love watching him but always feel a little put off by the folded arm thing. He's a great teacher, just a little too full of himself.

  11. #11
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    He's not in my list of youtubers I seek to learn something interesting. Take a look at this video https://youtu.be/PSPARIqbeZA, his claims about the use of a Bailey no. 4 smoother are just nonsensical to me.

  12. #12
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    I like Rob’s videos and have found them very useful. I actually find him pretty down to earth as he doesn’t always edit out a mistake. I appreciate that he points it out and then shows you how to fix it. I need good mistake fixing techniques!
    I don’t know Rob but I met him years ago and found him to be very approachable. I do have one of his saws and find it to be a well made and accurate tool. I also have a LV saw along with many other LV tools. It’s great to be able to support them both.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Rafael Herrera View Post
    He's not in my list of youtubers I seek to learn something interesting. Take a look at this video https://youtu.be/PSPARIqbeZA, his claims about the use of a Bailey no. 4 smoother are just nonsensical to me.
    In the meantime Paul Sellers only swears by the number four. It may just be some passive aggressive marketing.

    I have found more material in Mike Siemsenís rare videos that in Rob Cosmanís plethora. And he doesnít even name a brand. I donít think Paul Sellers encourages anyone to buy new stuff either. Different audience demographics maybe.

  14. #14
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    These type of discussions in the hand tool arena are always interesting. People become very sensitive about everything. I think some of the posts show a high degree of personal involvement.

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    I also think that Rob's gotta cover the time/effort to make these things somehow. If that's sales on the side, ok. Really, there's not a huge functional difference in any bench plane out there and the technology goes back literally to the romans. As I recall, his early instructional videos were pretty much LN ads. I still learned things from them.
    ~mike

    scope creep

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