I see through the years that Cammaster has used different steppers and servos.
I see through the years that Cammaster has used different steppers and servos.
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The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...
Probably the #1 thing that annoyed me while buying a CNC is the struggle finding technical specs about the sub components used (and I did just pay for a new CNC a few weeks ago - I will post about it soon). Motor vendor? Nah. Stepper motor strength? Maybe you’ll find that one, maybe you won’t. Same thing for types of bearings.
Jim - you might be right that camaster and shop bot will tell you those things over the phone, but I never called them. They were out of my price range from the get go. Avid gave some very basic details. The package that I bought gave better technical details. I get that people are trying to protect their sales against users buying directly from the mfg, but it also made it very hard to figure out what I wanted to spend my money on.
Anyways, Yuri, I’d suggest seeing if they’ll tell you the strength of the motors, if they’re open or closed loop and if it’s a ball screw or lead screw / rack and pinion or other. If you do end up buying this thing then I hope you post back here because it would be great to have another resource for less expensive machines. I’m a big fan of ‘Made in the USA’, but realistically not all of us can afford them or want to pay that premium.
Ben, I agree with you about the information, very hard to gather it. And, BTW, I called those two companies, they do not tell anything specific, just general things like high quality components, greatest and such. I do not feel like they were eager to make complete disclosure. The only thing is word of mouth, it seems that people like their products as is, that's it. But most their users are businesses, which do not care about internals if thing works. Enthusiasts and hobbyists like to know about products more, they tend to customize and extend the equipment, and closed nature is little bit unsavory and price may be prohibitive. Those American made machines are excellent and safe bets and of course one has to pay for the luxury.
As for the Ukrainian machines, they are pretty straightforward ones with ball screws and hiwin type linear bearings on all axes. As for drives, motors and control board, all of them a from China, but not worst one, and the same for Spindles, though if you are willing to pay they can equip them with extremely high quality HSD spindles too. I am not sure if I buy it, I still have no idea how to get it from sea port in New York and what type of paperwork it requires. But it seems that there is no import fees in that case.
As always, buying equipment is no easy task, especially on limited budget, though once that phase is over, we can return back to woodworking on new level and enjoy the process.
Ben, congratulation on your purchase, hope you will love the router.
This discussion has made me curious about the components that US companies like Camaster use on their machines. I know they are very highly regarded here and elsewhere, but has anyone really checked steppers, servos, drivers etc for country of origin? I'd be very surprised to discover that stuff being made in the US, along with linear rails and ball screws & nuts. Which is not to say that they are not high quality, but to imply that a manufacturer in Belarus would not have access to or use similar components seems biased.
To be sure, a lot of the Chinese machines are bottom dollar offerings of questionable quality and without much support, but I'm sure the Chinese can also build a quality machine if they choose (and we pay). If the OP had asked about importing a German machine, I doubt he would have gotten the same sort of comments.
Ukraine, not Blarus.
I am completely agree with what you are saying. Though even buying from Germany can be questionable. Let say Optimum Maschinen, Germany, the company which sells made in china machinery.
My apologies Yuri, I stand corrected. Don't know why Belarus was on my mind.
I mentioned Germany as I have an tiny, old Techno Isel Davinci router, built in Germany, and it's a very rigid and accurate machine. German woodworking machines, at least the ones that are imported to the US, seem to have great reputations and be well built and designed.
My point was that it's important it evaluate machines on their merits with an open mind, and even a subtle bias can make that difficult. And who amongst us can truly claim to have no bias whatsoever....
Richard, according to Camaster, they endeavor to use as much content for their machines from US and North American manufacturers as they can. What they don't physically make in-house (something they have increased in the last year or so) they try to be as supportive of "native" as they can, via both subcontracting and purchases. Walking their factory floor is an interesting experience because they use a lot of CNC to make CNC machines... There are some things, however, that just are not made here in North America or not available in viable quantities/prices so obviously they do what is necessary to build the product to their specifications and price points. HSD spindles are from Italy, for example, and some electronics come from Asian and other sources because that's where they are made. I believe that ShopSabre operates similarly, but I didn't learn about them until after I made my Camaster purchase.
That said, "quality" isn't based on manufacturer origin. There's good stuff made everywhere and bad stuff made everywhere within the global sphere. The points I try to bring up, such as with the OP, are merely to help insure that things like support and compatibility are considered. That's all. And it seems that Yuri has done his homework and feels comfortable with the idea of the machine he identified. At this point, it seems to be more about how to do business which in the end is going to determine if this is the right machine for him or "Plan B" has to be developed.
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The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...
Well said Jim! And I do think that the one big advantage of at least the Camaster machines is the big support community out there.
I've only had one experience in importing, and that was 30 yrs ago with a container of ebony billets from Nigeria. Luckily I had a partner who was very experienced in just that sort of stuff, or it would have gone very far south otherwise. But if it's just a case of getting it from the port in NY to Maryland, there must be loads of folks who know how to do that as economically as possible.
The only question how to find those people and stimulate them to talk ;-)there must be loads of folks who know how to do that as economically as possible.
Yuri, Felder headquarters is <2 hrs. drive from you and they have a Hammer CNC (I believe) set up there. It seems to fit most your criteria as far as spec and budget. Made in Austria, German Mafell router or Italian electrospindle:
https://www.felder-group.com/en-us/p...-47.82-p142995
https://youtu.be/vH9HXp-SFms
https://youtu.be/qOK9TcO0o1w
https://youtu.be/kSn9z7Bw6qQ
Erik
Ex-SCM and Felder rep
Yuri - that seems like the way to go. I would encourage you to check it out.
David
I did have the opportunity to review the specifications of that Hammer unit awhile back and it's very worthy of checking out...and it's a local trip to do so for you, Yuri
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The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...
I looked too, seems kinda light weight at 80kg. Also, it uses acme lead screws rather than ball screws. They spec backlash at .004, which is probably fine for woodworking, but I think that could be problematic for cutting aluminum.