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Thread: Getting Serious on Electric Cars?

  1. #76
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    Note, the article also claims virtually unlimited range when driven prudently, sounds like an unrealistic claim.

  2. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Garson View Post
    Note, the article also claims virtually unlimited range when driven prudently, sounds like an unrealistic claim.
    With 1HP to the wheels, I suspect you have no choice but to drive prudently - probably in the far right lane with people behind you honking at you.

    Mike
    Last edited by Mike Henderson; 11-05-2020 at 1:06 PM.
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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Henderson View Post
    With 1HP to the wheels, I suspect you have no choice but to drive prudently - probably in the far right lane with people behind you honking at you.

    Mike
    Or on the sidewalk with people pushing you.

  4. #79
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    From the article (which has no independent attributions):

    "The engine-driven generator can handle the demand from the main motor up to speeds of about 50 miles per hour. The "stored" energy in the batteries comes into play at higher velocities, giving extra kick for passing and climbing hills."

    "As far as the driving range is concerned, Dave points out that the car can travel unlimited distances—if driven carefully—because the motor has a low draw at cruising speeds: only 0.23 amps at 1,800 RPM. Since the Briggs & Stratton engine turns at a fixed rate and can generate 100 amps at about 28 1/2 volts, normal driving presents no problem."

    My guess is that the jet engine starter motor/generator is tremendously efficient, once this steerable coffin on wheels gets moving. The battery bank is really operating in parallel to the generator - to provide amperage during peak demand, and to buffer return current during braking.

    At .23 A driving the nominal speed of 50 mph described, 75 mpg does seem at least plausible. I would like to see something like this mocked up using a Fuel Cell stack out of a forklift instead of a B&S thumper.

    But still, this was cobbled together in 1979 and actually worked.

    It proves (yet again) that I'm neither a Futurist nor remotely aware of what inventors are up to. Imagine what's happening- today.https://youtu.be/PCSNCs7bwCw




  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Henderson View Post
    ... probably in the far right lane with people behind you honking at you. ....
    In your part of the world, they don't always honk...

    My mom, when in her late 70's, was rear-ended while doing 70+ mph in the slow lane. (On the 22 to Long Beach just west of the 55.) The guy that hit her was zoned out and it never occurred to him anyone would only be 5-10mph over the limit. She had the last laugh, he bent my Dad's wheel chair bumper rack and it poked a hole in his radiator.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Matthews View Post
    From the article (which has no independent attributions):

    "The engine-driven generator can handle the demand from the main motor up to speeds of about 50 miles per hour. The "stored" energy in the batteries comes into play at higher velocities, giving extra kick for passing and climbing hills."

    "As far as the driving range is concerned, Dave points out that the car can travel unlimited distances—if driven carefully—because the motor has a low draw at cruising speeds: only 0.23 amps at 1,800 RPM. Since the Briggs & Stratton engine turns at a fixed rate and can generate 100 amps at about 28 1/2 volts, normal driving presents no problem."

    My guess is that the jet engine starter motor/generator is tremendously efficient, once this steerable coffin on wheels gets moving. The battery bank is really operating in parallel to the generator - to provide amperage during peak demand, and to buffer return current during braking.

    At .23 A driving the nominal speed of 50 mph described, 75 mpg does seem at least plausible. I would like to see something like this mocked up using a Fuel Cell stack out of a forklift instead of a B&S thumper.

    But still, this was cobbled together in 1979 and actually worked.

    It proves (yet again) that I'm neither a Futurist nor remotely aware of what inventors are up to. Imagine what's happening- today.https://youtu.be/PCSNCs7bwCw



    0.23 amps at 28.5 volts works out to just over 6 hp if the converter I used is correct, is it reasonable to believe you only need 6 hp to cruise at 50 mph? Don't know, just asking.

  7. #82
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    The generator powers the motor, directly if I follow the article correctly. What's not discussed is the role of the FCR in this and generation losses.

    The battery pack is loaded in parallel, not always drawing current.

    I wouldn't draw much from the article without independent confirmation of results.

    It must have sounded like a lawnmower on the loose.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Garson View Post
    0.23 amps at 28.5 volts works out to just over 6 hp if the converter I used is correct, is it reasonable to believe you only need 6 hp to cruise at 50 mph? Don't know, just asking.
    Realistically, no. But the article was in Mother Earth News in 1979, from a hippy garage mechanic in backwoods Arkansas. I can't say that I think the laws of physics were the same then and under those circumstances, so who knows what he actually experienced?

    My wife's Chevy Volt has a battery pack capacity of about 25 hp-hours (yeah, it's an odd measurement, but a valid one). On a dead flat road, with no wind, no heater or AC, and nice dry air, she could potentially get 50 miles out of that at 50 mph (probably a little bit of a stretch, but close enough). So in strict mechanical terms, she'd be running 25hp to "cruise" that highly tuned, aerodynamic vehicle.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Demuth View Post
    So in strict mechanical terms, she'd be running 25hp to "cruise" that highly tuned, aerodynamic vehicle.
    This might help, if you have some ballpark numbers to stuff in:
    http://www.apexgarage.com/tech/horsepower_calc.shtml

    [EDIT] Chevy Volt Cd = 0.28 and 23.7sqft (Car & Driver), and 3500lb (guesstimate)...50mph = 10.3hp
    Last edited by Lee DeRaud; 11-05-2020 at 4:42 PM.
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    "Design"? Possibly. "Intelligent"? Sure doesn't look like it from this angle.
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  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee DeRaud View Post
    This might help, if you have some ballpark numbers to stuff in:
    http://www.apexgarage.com/tech/horsepower_calc.shtml

    [EDIT] Chevy Volt Cd = 0.28 and 23.7sqft (Car & Driver), and 3500lb (guesstimate)...50mph = 10.3hp
    Stock Opel GT weighed 1800 pounds.

    I'm optimistic this thing got his 75 mpg figure at least once.
    What isn't knownis how long this kludge held together.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Matthews View Post
    Stock Opel GT weighed 1800 pounds.
    Weight isn't a major factor for cruise power; I suspect they're only using it as a first-order approximation for tire/rolling resistance. The Opel GT does have a small(ish) frontal area, but is probably less aerodynamic (higher Cd) than it looks.
    Yoga class makes me feel like a total stud, mostly because I'm about as flexible as a 2x4.
    "Design"? Possibly. "Intelligent"? Sure doesn't look like it from this angle.
    We used to be hunter gatherers. Now we're shopper borrowers.
    The three most important words in the English language: "Front Towards Enemy".
    The world makes a lot more sense when you remember that Butthead was the smart one.
    You can never be too rich, too thin, or have too much ammo.

  12. #87
    sounds like diesel locomotives in miniature

    A little googling tells me that a diesel train can move 1 ton of freight >470 miles on a gallon of fuel... I see no reason a generator based electric car couldn't run indefinitely without charging...
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  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee DeRaud View Post
    This might help, if you have some ballpark numbers to stuff in:
    http://www.apexgarage.com/tech/horsepower_calc.shtml

    [EDIT] Chevy Volt Cd = 0.28 and 23.7sqft (Car & Driver), and 3500lb (guesstimate)...50mph = 10.3hp
    Yeah, it's interesting that the numbers come out that differently. I don't doubt the 10hp figure from the drag-hp equation, but I also don't doubt that what I wrote is true. A big part of the difference is that a Volt will only use about 2/3 of the the actual energy in it's battery, so the nominal 25 hp-hours, is actually more like 16 or so. So the drag equation says a bit over 10 hp, and the Volt actually uses an integrated 16 hp. I'm guessing there is enough difference in how hp integrates from an ICE compared to an electric drive, but I really don't know.
    Last edited by Steve Demuth; 11-05-2020 at 6:04 PM.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev Williams View Post
    sounds like diesel locomotives in miniature

    A little googling tells me that a diesel train can move 1 ton of freight >470 miles on a gallon of fuel... I see no reason a generator based electric car couldn't run indefinitely without charging...
    Rolling resistance of steel wheels on steel rails is much less than pneumatic rubber tires on asphalt. But more importantly, if a generator based car ran indefinitely it would be the mythological perpetual motion machine. Actually it is continually charging until the gas runs out.

  15. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Matthews View Post
    From the article (which has no independent attributions):

    "The engine-driven generator can handle the demand from the main motor up to speeds of about 50 miles per hour. The "stored" energy in the batteries comes into play at higher velocities, giving extra kick for passing and climbing hills."

    "As far as the driving range is concerned, Dave points out that the car can travel unlimited distances—if driven carefully—because the motor has a low draw at cruising speeds: only 0.23 amps at 1,800 RPM. Since the Briggs & Stratton engine turns at a fixed rate and can generate 100 amps at about 28 1/2 volts, normal driving presents no problem."

    My guess is that the jet engine starter motor/generator is tremendously efficient, once this steerable coffin on wheels gets moving. The battery bank is really operating in parallel to the generator - to provide amperage during peak demand, and to buffer return current during braking.

    At .23 A driving the nominal speed of 50 mph described, 75 mpg does seem at least plausible. I would like to see something like this mocked up using a Fuel Cell stack out of a forklift instead of a B&S thumper.

    But still, this was cobbled together in 1979 and actually worked.

    It proves (yet again) that I'm neither a Futurist nor remotely aware of what inventors are up to. Imagine what's happening- today.https://youtu.be/PCSNCs7bwCw



    The gasoline motor driving the generator is listed as a 5HP motor and drives a 100 amp generator at 28 1/2 volts. That's 2850VA max. That's about 3.8HP not accounting for any losses.

    If he can cruise with 0.23 amps at 28.5 volts, that's 6.55VA. As I stated earlier, since a HP is about 750 Watts (without considering losses), that's 0.00874 HP at cruise. Anyone who believes you can power a full size car at "cruise speed" with 0.00874 HP is fooling themselves.

    Mike

    [I suspect "it worked" when the batteries were fully charged, and when you used the car, the batteries ran down pretty quickly. Then you waited by the side of the road while the generator re-charged the batteries.]
    Last edited by Mike Henderson; 11-05-2020 at 8:49 PM.
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