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Thread: I'm confused...

  1. #31
    Just meant to use the table saw as a a well-known source of woodworking injuries. Just trying to caution those who may not have your level of expertise to be careful with spinning wheels and pointy objects.

  2. #32
    Really, anyone that can't immediately see there's a right and a wrong way to buff a chisel, probably should stay away from all power tools.

  3. #33
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    I don't think pointing out the safety issues on buffing a sharp edge really needs debating. I can absolutely be dangerous just like everything else we do in the shop. Catching a sharp edge on the buffing wheel moving at the speed it does happens in less than a second which can lead to serious injury or at the least serious damage to the tool. Debating whether this should be mentioned or not really is a waste of time.

    As for the OP question, I personally think that you are getting those marks from the A2 blade. What I didn't see mentioned is that A2 can be a pain when dealing with a brand new blade. Something with the heat treat process creates an ultra brittle edge on the very leading edge of a new blade. I own 5 or 6 LN bench planes along with a set of their bench and mortise chisels. Almost all of these blades had similar issues that you're pointing out. It took a solid 5+ sharpenings to get through this ultra brittle portion of the blade. Some blades were worse than others and some needed me to grind slightly past this portion of the blade. Once past this super brittle section I personally think A2 beats out O1 in every situation with the right sharpening regimen.

    I am also a Lie Nielsen fanboy. I can't imagine preferring a Stanley Bailey plane over the LN equivalent. The LN's just outperform the Stanley's in every way imaginable, IMO. Having said this you are not the only one to prefer Stanley planes over the more modern premium equivalents. I also agree with Derek, the Lee Valley PMV11 steel does out preform the A2 steel LN uses and you will not be disappointed by switching to that. I still had a similar issue with the brand new edge of PMV11 though and needed to get passed that ultra brittle section.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Hutchings View Post
    Really, anyone that can't immediately see there's a right and a wrong way to buff a chisel, probably should stay away from all power tools.
    One problem Richard is there are many new viewers who may land on this site. Many of them may not have the experience some of us have gained over the years.

    The other problem has to do with human nature being to think, "yeah, I can do that." It is often a person without any knowledge of what they are doing who steps right into the abyss only to wake up in the ER.

    Psychologists even have a name for it:

    The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which people with low ability at a task overestimate their ability.
    So, "anyone that can't immediately see there is a right and wrong way… " may not know what they are not seeing and think they have it nailed.

    If people learn from their mistakes, my learning is legend!

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Shea View Post
    I don't think pointing out the safety issues on buffing a sharp edge really needs debating. I can absolutely be dangerous just like everything else we do in the shop. Catching a sharp edge on the buffing wheel moving at the speed it does happens in less than a second which can lead to serious injury or at the least serious damage to the tool. Debating whether this should be mentioned or not really is a waste of time.

    As for the OP question, I personally think that you are getting those marks from the A2 blade. What I didn't see mentioned is that A2 can be a pain when dealing with a brand new blade. Something with the heat treat process creates an ultra brittle edge on the very leading edge of a new blade. I own 5 or 6 LN bench planes along with a set of their bench and mortise chisels. Almost all of these blades had similar issues that you're pointing out. It took a solid 5+ sharpenings to get through this ultra brittle portion of the blade. Some blades were worse than others and some needed me to grind slightly past this portion of the blade. Once past this super brittle section I personally think A2 beats out O1 in every situation with the right sharpening regimen.

    I am also a Lie Nielsen fanboy. I can't imagine preferring a Stanley Bailey plane over the LN equivalent. The LN's just outperform the Stanley's in every way imaginable, IMO. Having said this you are not the only one to prefer Stanley planes over the more modern premium equivalents. I also agree with Derek, the Lee Valley PMV11 steel does out preform the A2 steel LN uses and you will not be disappointed by switching to that. I still had a similar issue with the brand new edge of PMV11 though and needed to get passed that ultra brittle section.
    Tony,

    I can and not necessarily.

    ken

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    One problem Richard is there are many new viewers who may land on this site. Many of them may not have the experience some of us have gained over the years.

    The other problem has to do with human nature being to think, "yeah, I can do that." It is often a person without any knowledge of what they are doing who steps right into the abyss only to wake up in the ER.

    Psychologists even have a name for it:



    So, "anyone that can't immediately see there is a right and wrong way… " may not know what they are not seeing and think they have it nailed.

    If people learn from their mistakes, my learning is legend!

    jtk
    Jim,

    Some of us have to pee on the electric fence more than once.

    ken

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ken hatch View Post
    Jim,

    Some of us have to pee on the electric fence more than once.

    ken
    LOL - and we do it sometimes just to see if the fence is elec or not.
    Stand for something, or you'll fall for anything.

  8. #38
    I suppose I overestimate the mechanical abilities of newbies. I've been at this sharp tool thing for too long I guess. I grew up fixing things like most of you here and at my age have done most of the really dumb things already. I'm sure there's a few more coming. I don't like getting cut anymore.

  9. #39
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    I can't imagine preferring a Stanley Bailey plane over the LN equivalent. The LN's just outperform the Stanley's in every way imaginable, IMO.
    It is doubtful one could determine which maker's plane was used to smooth the surface of a piece of wood. To me the ability to do the job is what really counts.

    The LN's surely outperformed my wallet in all but a couple of cases.

    Two of those cases are the reason for two of my LN planes.

    If a person has the time, a lot can be learned in the pursuit and rehabilitation of older planes. If one doesn't have the time, paying a premium price for a quality product needs no other reason.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    It is doubtful one could determine which maker's plane was used to smooth the surface of a piece of wood. To me the ability to do the job is what really counts.

    The LN's surely outperformed my wallet in all but a couple of cases.

    Two of those cases are the reason for two of my LN planes.

    If a person has the time, a lot can be learned in the pursuit and rehabilitation of older planes. If one doesn't have the time, paying a premium price for a quality product needs no other reason.

    jtk
    I think a lot of this is open to interpretation. I do not own a Lie Nielsen product, but i also do not at this time have a reason to replace my vintage stanleys with one. My stanleys give me results I am satisfied with. For some people's work, maybe tight tolerances and precision ground soles are required.

    This discussion reminds me of an episode of Parks and Recreation where Ron Swanson smashes a chair and his friend yells and asks what was wrong with it. Ron replied " It was too perfect, it looked machine made."

    I also watched an entire series where Mike Dunbar makes a windsor chair, and I remember him at one point saying after shaping the seat that he was going to use sand paper to soften the tool marks, but not remove them, because he wants people to remember its a hand tooled surface and its a mark of his skill.

    Now, this should not be used as an excuse for sloppy craftsmanship, and tracks and scratches from a smoothing plane need to be addressed. But I also find it very stress relieving that if a surface I planed isnt flat within thousandths of an inch, that its ok. We are working wood, not machining it.

    Thats my two cents, and i doubt its even worth that.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ken hatch View Post
    Jim,

    Some of us have to pee on the electric fence more than once.

    ken
    Only took once and I was very young. Never occurred to me that electricity moved faster than urine exits your body! Did I mention that I was very young? Early Elementary school young.

    That said, I thought that the warning to use a buffing wheel as it rotates away from you is a good one, especially if you have not done it previously.
    Last edited by Andrew Pitonyak; 11-02-2020 at 2:53 PM. Reason: Comment on buffing wheels.

  12. #42
    Thanks for your input! Thats interesting about the new blade because I haven't sharpened it that many times. I will keep sharpening and see if things get better. I may have some exceptional Stanley's but so far I haven't found that the LN is that much better especially since I upgraded the hock iron and chip breaker. Mechanically, the LN adjustment wheel is much smoother, and the bedrock frog is nice but in the end, they seem to accomplish the same task and right now, I seem to be getting a better finish with the Hock but that could change over time! One day, i would love to invest into 3 or 4 LN planes but I haven't convinced myself that it's the right decision for me when I have planes that seem to work so well. The LN tools sure are beautiful though!!! Thanks again for the input!

  13. #43
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    I seem to be getting a better finish with the Hock but that could change over time!
    At a Tool Event in Oakland, CA, if my memory is working, Ron Hock told me, "people are not buying my blades for the blades, they are buying them for this," and pointed at the surface of a piece that was just planed. That led me to purchase three blades from him at the event. They are good blades, but so are the original Stanley blades if they haven't been stored in a rain storm.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  14. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    At a Tool Event in Oakland, CA, if my memory is working, Ron Hock told me, "people are not buying my blades for the blades, they are buying them for this," and pointed at the surface of a piece that was just planed. That led me to purchase three blades from him at the event. They are good blades, but so are the original Stanley blades if they haven't been stored in a rain storm.

    jtk
    +1. I agree along with the OEM chip breaker.

    ken

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Chang View Post
    It's important to put the blade on the part of the wheel that's spinning away from you. That's the bottom side of the buffing wheel. I've never remotely felt that the buffer was going to pull the blade out of my hands, and if it did, it would pull it away from me and throw it onto the table that the buffing wheel is sitting on.

    There's no need to wear head-to-toe safety gear if you do it this way.
    +1, very little risk here

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