Finding an Apprenticeship

[Jim Matthews]

I hate to sound like an old grandpa...

Too late.

That mindset is utterly wrong and counterproductive to your ultimate goal, and thats to have a stable income.

The trade off is training. If there's no meaningful program - it's usury. Perhaps you haven't been actively engaged in the trades, but there aren't enough appliants to go around.

Shops with high turnover are a dead end. If you only see the business end of a broom and an unending supply of sawdust - walk. Look around - is it one or two regulars over 50 and a rotation of twenty somethings? Where did the rest go?

If that means doing whatever is necessary when its within reason, be part of the team and do it. If they are acting like a bunch of sophomoric, frat-house hazing, of the new/low staff then you just picked a bad place to work.

Again, you may not have recent experience in a larger concern. More likely is the invasive surveillance of when you arrived, the number of steps walked and your online presence.

If the terms and conditions of an internship include "at will", NDA or non-compete clauses - WALK.

But the guy who jumps in and does whatever is needed is the one that will move along.

The guy who jumps in and doesn't get paid is a tool.

[roger wiegand]

If the terms and conditions of an internship include "at will", NDA or non-compete clauses - WALK.

Where I live, all employment is "at will" by state law, in the absence of a contract that specifically says something else.

[Jim Matthews]

Where I live, all employment is "at will" by state law, in the absence of a contract that specifically says something else.

Apprenticeship has specific protections to prevent churning. There's an entrance exam for most.
If the employer forces an apprentice to sign away their rights, it's a scam.

https://masswagelaw.com/massachusett...d-internships/

https://www.mass.gov/orgs/division-o...tice-standards

https://www.dol.gov/apprenticeship/t...toolkitfaq.htm

[Mark Bolton]

Ridiculous. There are very few formal "apprenticeships". I will guarantee the OP is using the term to be taken under a shops wing, work, learn, and get paid. Its not like an internship in college.

My lord. Run for the hills from these types of employees. Ticking time bombs and a cancer in your company. Good lord.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Apprenticeship has specific protections to prevent churning. There's an entrance exam for most.
If the employer forces an apprentice to sign away their rights, it's a scam.

https://masswagelaw.com/massachusett...d-internships/

https://www.mass.gov/orgs/division-o...tice-standards

https://www.dol.gov/apprenticeship/t...toolkitfaq.htm

Couldn't agree more with Mark's take on this, run away. Not happening at my place. I don't think that's what the OP is asking for.

[Mel Fulks]

Even when apprenticeship was common ,you didn't learn a lot in the first year. That was mostly to test your dedication,
and sweeping skill.

[John Gornall]

I have walked out of two jobs that treated new staff as underpaid janitors.
This is the same noxious premise behind internships - where training is purely accidental.

Beware any employer that considers staff expendable.

The job where I was handed the broom was an excellent experience - good union pay, great training, good employer - best job I ever had.

[Mark Bolton]

Even when apprenticeship was common ,you didn't learn a lot in the first year. That was mostly to test your dedication,
and sweeping skill.

Spot on. And no different than the karate kid... the whole.time you think its a waste and your not learning anything.. only to find out later you were being a little snot.

[Tom M King]

Never having been an employee at a real job, except for the first three months after I finished school, I'm not one to be able to give advice on finding a job. I would say to only take advice from someone who produces work for a living. If you don't already have a good aptitude for building anything, I'd advise taking a different fork in the road.

To produce work, you have to keep moving, and get something done. When I give a new hire a chance, I can tell in the first hour what their capabilities are.

My first job was working for an electrician, when I was an early teenager, before I was old enough to have a driver's license. He used to come get me when he needed help. He gave me one of the best compliments I ever had one night, when we were working without power by flashlight, trying to get the power back on. He told me, "You're the best one for holding a light I've ever seen". If you're getting hired to help, you need to think about how to actually be help.

[Stephen White]

Me I wouldn't take some grunt apprentice position (read low/no pay). If you can't find an old timer willing to pass on their craft then maybe consider just continuing making pieces how you want to until your abilities reach the point that you feel comfortable taking custom orders. Nothing wrong with a side gig that helps you pay for your tools and keeps you learning. At some point if you don't want to have your own business then you could approach high end shops with skills to point to and maybe land something that matches the career you seem to envision. Going and sweeping up at a local cabinet shop might work out with a long term job in wood but I bet it's probably not going to work out like you are envisioning. You might very well end up making your living turning out cabinets and\or bulk furniture for some company but It sure seems like won't line up with what you are thinking as you use your hand tools to carefully craft your first piece. Just my 2 cents. Most people don't pick their jobs as much as end up in them and one sticks.

[John Gornall]

So much is lost when an old, skilled person leaves without passing on the knowledge. During my college years I worked helping an old family member. He was a European trained craftsperson. He kept working into his 90's, doing work for family, no longer paid as he didn't need the money. I wasn't paid and never thought about it. Working with him was one of those lucky times for me. He and I built a house when he was 86. He gave me the best work compliment I ever got - said I worked harder than anyone he'd ever worked with.

[Mark Bolton]

Me I wouldn't take some grunt apprentice position (read low/no pay)

Where in the world would you land on a conclusion of "no pay"? That make zero sense. I honestly doubt there is an apprenticeship/internship in the US that is literally no pay. You move in to the union as an apprentice carpenter/electrician/plumber/on down the line, and you are paid. College internships are typical only unpaid when they count as academic credits which means your trading time in your internship for your school credits. Fair? not so sure, but is what it is.

If your level of aptitude (regardless of your self-perceived value) is "some grunt apprentice position" you either take and get the mud out of your shoes so you can climb the ladder or sit at the house or go flip burgers.

The old timer willing to pass on their craft is likely only going to pay you if he has an overabundance of work or if you contribute enough throughput in his operation for him to be able to generate at least twice your payroll to cover your expense and put a little in his pocket for doing the paperwork.

I honestly wish some comments like these were legally allowed on a job application or an interview because it would save employers a mile of headache with bad hires.

[Mel Fulks]

You have to be just as careful choosing an apprentice as as you are in any other hiring. Maybe more so . Some might
want to work just long enough to learn how to make a CD box.... With your wood, machines , and insurance.

[andrew whicker]

Chicago has tons of manufacturing. When I was engineering for a living we regularly used a very nice machine shop in South Chicago / Oaklawn. I can only imagine the huge amounts of high end remodeling / cabinetry companies. There's a lot of money in Chicago. And if Chicago is some sort of high end custom furniture desert, then why isn't anyone taking advantage?


I live near SLC and a friend of mine works at a high end 'built ins' company here and he is learning at a very fast pace. I'm a bit jealous actually. I want him to work for me.

[Mark Bolton]

You have to be just as careful choosing an apprentice as as you are in any other hiring. Maybe more so . Some might
want to work just long enough to learn how to make a CD box.... With your wood, machines , and insurance.

I think your point is super valid in that when someone learns, they then want to break out on their own. Welcome to the real world. There are no captive employees. At a mid point in the process hopefully the financial compensation and the personal reward leave the employee with the realization the alternative of self employment isnt all that fun. Most people that have ever worked with me tell me over and over that none of them would be willing to trade the stress, sleepless nights, and workload, for what they pretty much know I take out of the business. I have had one past employee go out on their own in a side shoot (painting contractor) of our business after we had the painful conversation that it was time for him to move on.. It didnt last long.

Its a common concept in the shop world that hires are going to steal your jewels and then go out on their own. Its hogwash. In this day and age 1 in 1000 will have the turpitude to actually pull it off and it will likely only be for a short time.

In my world at least... if the OP came to me and as has been stated, in the first 5 minutes of work you'd have an idea of the long ball,.. I'd pretty much give it all, knowledge (little), tools (alot), building, the whole lot, for a small cut on future work for a fixed time. That notion/offer has been in place for years. Concrete finisher I used exclusively was the same way... No takers.