How much hp does a shaper need?

[Mark Bolton]

6008 is pretty light duty for a shaper unless the heads are smaller and the cuts lighter. Dave

In defense of these import level machines, I would guess they would likely run any cutter most would normally throw at them for any amount of time that would be expected. I agree fully its a lot smarter to buy a monster cheap at auction if you can but the vast majority may barely push the capacity of a 3HP machine or barely crowd a 5HP machine that may seem flimsy. I have a cheap 5HP machine in the shop that run's day in and day out and still on its first set of cheapy bearings. Its good for what its good for. Id imagine its seen miles more traffic than most hobby shop shapers and still chunks along. Cut quality isnt great, spindle runout could be a lot better, but it gets used for what it gets used for.

I'd probably snatch up a couple super cheap 3HP machines to run one in a blue moon dedicated stuff if I came across them. Coves, roundovers, slotting. If they sat for 6 mos. and got the dust blown off them with the leaf blower when they were needed it'd be faster than breakdown and setup of another machine.

[Jared Sankovich]

6008 is pretty light duty for a shaper unless the heads are smaller and the cuts lighter. Dave

Interestingly the laguna and grizzly version of the pm2700 use double 6008 bearings top and bottom. The 511/512/513 (delta 7xx, pm29, cantek, bridgewood, larger laguna and a bunch of others) series of Eastern imports use a similar double 6008 top bearing but a considerably larger quill. That said iirc they are up to 7.5hp and rated for 225mm heads.

Grizzly
Screenshot_20201028-191025_Drive.jpg

Laguna
Screenshot_20201028-190920_Drive.jpg

[Erik Loza]

I have to agree with Mark on this: The vast majority of hobbyists as well as most small shops would be fine with the budget imports that have been mentioned. The most common scenario I see in shops is a “cell” of 3-4 individual shapers like a Weaver. Each set up for a different profile. Sure, the fences are terrible and the frames are flimsy but that is what a lot of shops use to do their face frames with. “Yes” beefy shapers that handle 5 inches under the nut are awesome your average cabinet shop would never need anything close.

To the OP, my advice (which someone already stated) would be to look for a good deal on a used one with a power feeder. Most of your money should go towards tooling. Best of luck in your search.

Erik

[Mel Fulks]

Some are real junk, one I had to use had spindles that were bumpy as a Jr high shop first project rolling pin. The best I
used was a Delta Invicta ,think it was made in Brazil.

[David Kumm]

Doubling the bearings is a good way to increase the load capability while keeping the higher rpm available with light duty bearings. That is not an insignificant upgrade. My concern here is not that a smaller shaper can work well when used within its limits, but that people aren't aware of the limits. The OP's question relating only to higher HP demonstrates that without understanding the build limits of a machine, it can become dangerous. HP is irrelevant without knowing a bunch of other stuff too. A million years ago i ran a 3 hp SECO shaper which was actually a pretty decent machine for something in the $1100 range. I bought a 3" steel corrugated knife head for it and was clueless about how heavy or how much stress it put on the machine. Freud smaller diameter cutters were appropriate but not what I was running. I learned fast but sometimes survival has more to do with luck than knowledge. Machinery is dangerous and it is worth the time to learn something about it before asking it to do tasks only the marketing people advocate. Downloading schematics of several machines of different price ranges gives good information as to the differences as Jared did above. Dave

[Travis Conner]

It looks like the powermatic has a handle to adjust the fence. The jet you kind of have to eyeball the fence adjustment to keep it aligned.

[Jim Becker]

It looks like the powermatic has a handle to adjust the fence. The jet you kind of have to eyeball the fence adjustment to keep it aligned.

Historically, they are the same company with PM sometimes being a little beefier on some tools and having more premium features. But someone mentions something important earlier in the thread...your intended use has got to factor into the decision so you can balance cost vs heft/features. I do like heavier, more powerful machines, largely because the mass often reduces vibration to a minimum or none and more power reduces any performance variation that stems from cutting load. Both of those things can contribute to quality in the cut. But again, "you" have to figure out where that balance point is for you. Don't rule out considering Grizzly if you're buying new, either. The range of shapers they offer is pretty broad and you'll note a lot of "similarity" to the units you've been looking at.

[Travis Conner]

The powermatic has wheels, that's what the handle is for. Raises and lowers them.

[Joe Jensen]

I've used shapers for over 40 years. We had a 1/2" spindle shaper in my dad's home shop from the days before big routers and router tables. As a result I've always had a shaper. I built a ton of cabinets with a Powermatic model 26 with a 3/4" spindle. I currently have a Felder with 7.5HP and a 1 1/4" spindle. If you get a shaper budget for a power feeder, much safer and it makes the cut basically perfect. No more sanding profiles. I'm a huge advocate of shapers over fancy router tables as the cut finish is SOOOOO much better. But get a feeder at the same time.

[Travis Conner]

Yeah Joe that's what the rep was saying. He said that it makes it like a planer where you just push the board in and it does the rest. I guess they like to kick the boards out kind of how a router likes to takes off on you if you go the wrong direction.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Travis,

What are you going to use the shaper for primarily?

Has this question been answered yet?

[ChrisA Edwards]

Yeah Joe that's what the rep was saying. He said that it makes it like a planer where you just push the board in and it does the rest. I guess they like to kick the boards out kind of how a router likes to takes off on you if you go the wrong direction.

I read this and it made me a little concerned, mostly about your safety and you not really understanding the aspects of this machine.

If used wrong, a shaper could take your hand off, think of it like a table saw on steroids. A tablesaw will cut anything 1/8" wide in its path, you may lose a finger or two (if it's not a Sawstop). A two inch cutter block, on a shaper, will grab, and continue to grab, and destroy a 2" path of fingers, bone and hand, and has so much inertia, it'll barely slow down, and that will happen faster than the nerve endings in your hand signal your brain as to what is going on.

Now there are cutter blocks that increase safety and limit this possibility, but that's a whole different aspect of using this machine. If you are not onboard with the safety aspects and operation of a power feeder, the tooling is the next level up.

I'm not saying this to knock you in any way, it's just that using this machine could be a life changing situation if used wrong.

[Matt Day]

Totally agree Chris.