I probably use my miter saw on every project that I work on.
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I probably use my miter saw on every project that I work on.
Army Veteran 1968 - 1970
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Ehhh, I don't agree. My construction grade saws are perfectly capable of being accurate when used properly.Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe
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I guess I'm at the other end of the spectrum from a lot of the answers you've gotten. I would miss my 40 year old Ryobi 8-1/2" slider quite a bit - I use it almost every time I'm in the shop. It gets used to break down lumber of course, but also to cut to finish length as well, and it is still dead nuts accurate: 90 degrees vertically as well horizontally. If I have a lot of pieces to cut I'll clamp on a temp fence with a stop block and they all come out precisely the same length. Maybe I use it so much because I spent 25 years as a trim carpenter with it, or maybe because the way my shop is set up it's right behind the bench and is more convenient that the TS which is on the other side of the room. Dust collection - well, no, not really. This is what it looked like after cutting all the rough stock and then the finish lengths for a set of chairs I made. I forget what I had the TS set up for but didn't want to change it.
20171224_115202.jpg 20190901_171523.jpg
To me, it's an essential part of the shop. After 40 years, there is no reason to replace it.
Stand for something, or you'll fall for anything.
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Please define proper use.
Bumbling forward into the unknown.
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My shop garage is 14x24. My one long wall without windows holds a dual bevel 12 inch non sliding miter saw and an old radial arm saw I hardly use. Lumber is stored above it. Tools are stored below in drawers. I had the same arrangement in my last shop so I've had a shop organized this way for over 20 years. I do cross cuts that are less than 8 inches on the CMS including for furniture. I have movable stops along the bench and I use old business cords against the stops to fine tune critical cuts.
I also have a SawStop PCS with a Osborne gauge and a sled that has been tuned with the 5 cut method. But, for me, the CMS on it's bench is handier and more accurate for cross cutting. Especially if the piece is at all large. Trying to move something like a bed rail or headboard cross pieces or even a leg through the table saw is just not my idea of a good practice. Much easier to position a stop and cut it on the CMS. I am not trying to criticize others, just saying what works for me.
The reason I do not have a sliding CMS is they take up too much room and the arms are too easily deflected affecting the accuracy. I haven't used them a lot, however, so they might work better than I think. If I need a wider cross cut I use my track saw. Works great. My table saw outfeed table is also my track saw cutting station and my assembly table.
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Wow! That’s amazingly cool. If only it had a provision (accessory?) for end stops, like the other stands out there. What are y’all using for that?
A built-in dust shroud would also be nice, and easy for them to have done. For 300 simoleans, I want it all! :^)
Last edited by Doug Dawson; 10-24-2020 at 11:01 AM.
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I do not have a permanent miter saw set-up at my shop. I find it faster and more accurate to use my slider for crosscuts especially finish cuts. If I want or need a miter saw I will set up my saw table that I use on jobsites in the shop.
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Number one would be don’t try to use “body english” on the saw handle (not to mention using a sharp high quality blade, and calibrating the darn thing.)
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My Omga has held square for nearly two years now, daily use. I’ve yet to see a construction saw hold square for two cuts.
If I spend 10 minutes/week squaring a construction grade saw, that makes 520 minutes of wasted shop hours. If I spend two hours a week fixing poorly made cuts then I’m looking at 104 wasted hours per year or roughly two weeks of wasted time.
If I reference off of those cuts for tenoning, now I’m looking at even more wasted time and poorly fitting joints. Not to mention furniture that assembled out if square. Now I have to spend time fitting things and squaring cabinets that should have assembled square. More wasted time.
Last edited by Brian Holcombe; 10-24-2020 at 12:05 PM.
Bumbling forward into the unknown.
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On one of the scms that go to jobsites and processes piles of 2x6s, the first and most important is a good blade. Then set stops and make a test cut. Generally that's all, but occasionally the fence stops get moved in transport and need addressed. Heavy use on a construction site also tends to build up yuk in the detents and they need blown out. Test cut catches all that though, and it's not a big deal to address. However I try to leave a 1013 in the shop not for jobsite use and it's always ready to go.
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The trouble comes when you want dead on accuracy at both 90* (in both directions) and want the same dead on accuracy at mitered angles and having it remain dead on as your change the settings. No construction grade miter saw I’ve used is built to good enough tolerances to expect it to give you that type of performance even after fussing with it...especially sliding saws. There’s too much slop in the rails along the length of travel that they can’t be trusted for 100% accuracy with finished cuts. I’m talking square to within a couple thousands of an inch or less in both directions. That’s unreasonable to expect from a construction grade miter saw of any kind.
Some parameters have to be defined in order to have an educated and accurate discussion about the finer points.
How thick is the material you’re cutting? Super dense hardwoods or softwoods? Absolute, dead on finished cuts or anything rougher? Expectations of “square” and accuracy expectations in your work? How close is good enough for you? All these things and more will influence what’s acceptable or not.
I’ve learned that even the “best” construction miter saw (Festool Kapex) isn’t reliably accurate enough for finished cuts in thicker hardwoods and now don’t have that expectation of any construction grade miter saw, no matter how much tuning happens.
There’s a huge difference in cutting 3” thick hard maple in a furniture level application and 3/4” trim/casing/baseboard material and how the blade/saw deflects with the harder and thicker woods even with premium blades.
Last edited by Phillip Mitchell; 10-24-2020 at 12:09 PM.
Still waters run deep.
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Original question was directed at furniture making.
Bumbling forward into the unknown.
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Yep, I use a (and I'll be very pedantic here) powered miter saw for construction.. otherwise it sits unused. I've never seen one that wouldn't leave an uneven shaving on a shooting board.
~mike
happy in my mud hut
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What the heck are you guys doing with your poor miter saws to make them cut so badly???? You all do realize that 90% of furniture cuts are 90 degree angles, the other 10% are miters that can all be done at once, right? I can't think of any reason, even with a saw that has trouble finding a a perfect spot in a detent, of how anyone can't figure out how to make an acceptable cut with a chop saw. Seriously, if you have to spend Omga $, or completely avoid a chop saw altogether, you are either shooting for unobtainable and irrelevant perfection, or running the saw wrong.
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It’s not that they cut “so badly”, it’s that they aren’t reliably accurate to a high level of precision specifically in thick hardwood in my experience. Many would say that I have an unrealistic and “irrelevant goal of perfection” and I would call is optimal precision and accuracy that I can trust. In my experience (and I know I’m not the only one), construction grade miter saws are not reliably accurate enough in demanding furniture applications to be completely trusted. Like I said in my previous post, without defining the context of accuracy or personal expectations we can run around in circles with each other all day saying what we each believe to be true.
Some of us are “extreme” in our demand for accuracy from machines, but only because we know it to be possible and worth pursuing for our particular situation or preference.
Just to be clear, I have worked as a carpenter for many years as well and understand what is usually “good enough or acceptable” in most Homebuilding situations, but high level furniture work for clients (or yourself if you’re picky for that matter) is a totally different level of precision and can require a different build quality of machine to achieve accurate and repeatable results, in this case without having to say, take every cut to a shooting board after the miter saw because it wasn’t quite perfect.
Still waters run deep.
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