Completely Confused About Grinding Plane Sharpening

[Tom Mayock]

I am trying to pick up some hand tool skills, and I understand that sharpening correctly is very important for getting the best performance out of the tools. I have been reading -- arguably too much -- about how to sharpen plane blades, and I am now totally confused about the grinding part of the sharpening process. Some discussions of sharpening start with someone taking the iron to a grinding wheel, while other discussions start the process with oil or water stones. Can a plane blade be properly sharpened without using a grinder?

If a grinder is required, how often do you need to regrind the primary bevel?

I have a Stanley 5 that I purchased off of Craigslist that I am trying to learn on. I do not have a bench grinder, and given my limited space, I would really prefer to not have to use one. So far I have been trying to get by using a cheapo two sided sharpening stone from Amazon. Results have been meh. I just ordered this set of oil stones (https://www.bestsharpeningstones.com...&product_id=77) and got a strop. I have also been using a honing guide.


Apologies if this should be obvious. Sometimes there is too much information on the internet.

[Rafael Herrera]

To grind your plane iron or chisel means to remove a significant amount of metal. You can achieve that with a bench grinder or very coarse sand paper.

Your blade may need grinding if it's chipped or grossly out of square.

You can also grind with a sharpening stone rated as coarse, but be prepared to spend some time achieving your desired shape.

[ken hatch]

To grind your plane iron or chisel means to remove a significant amount of metal. You can achieve that with a bench grinder or very coarse sand paper.

Or a course stone.

The first stage of sharpening is grinding where you shape the bevel with course grit. The second is honing were you use a finer grit to remove the scratches from the grinding stage and last is polishing where you polish the bevel with very fine grit.

There are many ways to do any of the three stages. A powered grinder is not required.

ken

[justin sherriff]

No a grinder is not needed. A grinder is used to do a hard reset or what is called a hollow grind witch is helpful if you sharpen freehand.
If you need to start with some thing coarser than the stones you can use sand paper on a peace of glass or granite tile. I have a belt sander I will use some times.

With sharpening there are a lot of ways to get there just pick one and stick with it. With time you will get better.

[glenn bradley]

Sharpening is certainly one area where there are many, many right answers. The use of a grinding wheel creates a concave geometry on the face of a cutter. This leaves a smaller surface area to be sharpened and honed. This is not right or wrong, simply a strategy that some folks use.

SharpeningTricks3.jpg

You will be unable to find someone or some source to give you the end-all sharpening advice. I recommend you choose one method to start with, invest as little money as you can to try it out and then take the next step. Some of us use diamond stones, some oil stones, ceramics, Worksharp 3000, Tormek, scary sharp, wet stones and combinations of any and all of these. To find your way you will have to begin. Copying the way I do it may not be good for you, maybe it is? Copying a You Tuber may not be good for you, maybe it is? You will find your way but, you must pick one to start with and begin. Have fun.

[Erich Weidner]

I only got a grinder this year, and specifically for wood turning tool sharpening (which is now my latest new hobby).
I've never used it for planes or chisels. Though I am planning to use it to create a cambered Jack plane blade (lots of material to remove)

So, you definitely don't need one. Stones work just fine, just take longer. You will only do your first rough sharpening on a grinder, all the subsequent steps will be stones (or sandpaper or abrasive pastes/etc.)
I've never changed the bevel angle on my stuff. My 600 grit waterstone has always worked for me for course sharpening.

Also, one can get into trouble on a grinder if you overheat your tool steel.

[Tom Mayock]

Thanks everyone so much everyone for the clarification. This really helps a lot.

It looks like the coarse stone in the set that I just ordered is 600 grit oil stone. Would you say this is coarse enough to handle grinding?

[Erich Weidner]

It looks like the coarse stone in the set that I just ordered is 600 grit oil stone. Would you say this is coarse enough to handle grinding?

I've never used oil stones, but my 600 waterstone has always worked fine for me. I only use it if I'm fixing a nick in the blade, otherwise the 1,000 stone is what I start with when a tool gets dull.
From what others have said, the type of steel on your tools will matter with your sharpening system. Many threads here on sharpening, the rabbit hole runs deep.

Disclaimer: I don't have the time under my belt sharpening that many here have. I have yet to wear out a stone.

[Derek Cohen]

A grinder reduces the amount of steel to sharpen. This is pretty relevant with modern thick blades. However, with the thin blades used by Stanley (and others), it is quite possible to create a primary bevel freehand/guided on coarse stones. A diamond stone would be good here.

It is all about efficiency in creating a honed cutting edge.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Rafael Herrera]

Your set is made up of Arkansas stones. I don't have experience with the soft ones (the soft label is just relative to the others, it's still a hard stone), but I use a stone that is related to the softs called a Washita. It is a coarse stone, but one can finish with it. I normally go to the strop after it. Washita stones are another rabbit hole.

If this soft is a 600 grit equiv, it may be too slow for significant blade repairs. If you want to stick with oilstones, a coarse crystolon has worked well for me when I need to be aggressive.

[Warren Mickley]

Thanks everyone so much everyone for the clarification. This really helps a lot.

It looks like the coarse stone in the set that I just ordered is 600 grit oil stone. Would you say this is coarse enough to handle grinding?

I use bench stones without a grinder the way I was trained in 1962. The set you ordered (soft, hard and black Arkansas stones) does not have a coarse stone. They are all polishing stones. The soft Arkansas stone is not a 600 grit stone; it is more like a 6000 or 10,000 grit stone. These stones are good at removing scratches, but not good at removing the amount of material to remove the wear on a dull tool.

You need a coarse stone, what was traditionally called a rub stone. The good news is these stones are relatively cheap. I would recommend something around 8X2X1.

Here are some possibilities:
Silicon carbide ( crystolon, carborundum) combination coarse medium
King 800 stone
Norton medium or coarse India or combination.

I would avoid harsh stones like diamond or Shapton because they make deep scratches which would be difficult to remove with your soft Arkansas.

[Tom Mayock]

So until now I only had the combination stone that is linked below. At least as per Amazon, the coarse side is 150 and the fine side is 240. Should I continue to use this for the coarse work, or is this a piece of garbage?


https://www.amazon.com/Bora-501057-C.../dp/B003Y3BMAW

[Jim Koepke]

So until now I only had the combination stone that is linked below. At least as per Amazon, the coarse side is 150 and the fine side is 240. Should I continue to use this for the coarse work, or is this a piece of garbage?


https://www.amazon.com/Bora-501057-C.../dp/B003Y3BMAW

If it does what you want it to do it is not garbage.

These stones are good at removing scratches, but not good at removing the amount of material to remove the wear on a dull tool.

This is an important point for people buying a lot of used tools.

Otherwise there is good reason for not letting a tool get so dull as to need so much work restoring its edge. A few quick trips to the stones during the day saves a lot of time over one long session on the stones.

jtk

[Tom Mayock]

I agree completely on the garbage comment. Unfortunately at this point I am so inexperienced with sharpening that I am not completely sure what that stone should be doing. Until I really started reading up on sharpening, I thought that stone was all that I needed to get a nice cut with a hand plane, and the results were very disappointing.

[Rafael Herrera]

I agree completely on the garbage comment. Unfortunately at this point I am so inexperienced with sharpening that I am not completely sure what that stone should be doing. Until I really started reading up on sharpening, I thought that stone was all that I needed to get a nice cut with a hand plane, and the results were very disappointing.

Sharpening is a pretty dense subject.

Aluminum oxide is also sold under the trade name India by Norton. It comes in coarse, medium and fine, don't bother to assign them a grit number.

Your particular stone I would say is ok for sharpening axes, knives, and other non-fine cutting tools. The only way you'll know if it works for you, on these tools, is to try it.

It's also ok for re-profiling or repairing chisels and plane irons. It can get the tool ready for the next stages where you can use finer media.

Do you have some old tools you can practice with? work them with your AO stone and see the results.