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Thread: Poplar File Box

  1. #16
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    great work Jim!

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    Stanley #45 was set up for cutting stopped slots:



    Attachment 443784
    Hi Jim, thank you for this step by step.

    I see your stopped slots really clean after the end of the cut part.
    When I do stopped slots with my #50, I always have got tracks after the slot ended due to the metal skate of the plane. I have pictures of this somewhere if I am not clear.

    Do you have a special trick or are the #45 skate’s different?

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axel de Pugey View Post
    Hi Jim, thank you for this step by step.

    I see your stopped slots really clean after the end of the cut part.
    When I do stopped slots with my #50, I always have got tracks after the slot ended due to the metal skate of the plane. I have pictures of this somewhere if I am not clear.

    Do you have a special trick or are the #45 skate’s different?
    These slots were shorter than the length of the plane so it seemed to work well with the skates and the auxilary sole to be at the same height.

    Especially in softer woods the skates can leave a mark. In some of my stopped cutting the skates have been elevated above the surface and the plane's effective sole is the depth stops all set below the surface of the skates holding them above the work.

    My #50 doesn't have a blade adjuster so it hasn't been used for stopped cuts.

    Depending on the work to be done many planes can do stopped cuts. One can use a chisel to do some of the work cutting out the slot's end as long as the part of the plane in front of the blade. This works for cutting stopped dados with a #39 plane.

    Here are some of other posts where using a #45 for making stopped cuts came up > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?242089

    and > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?257497

    Here is the post on a practice stopped cut with a #39 > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?278928

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  4. #19
    I found back a picture of my issue. I often cut a stopped groove for a bottom in my tails and end up with skates marks.

    Rainure_arretee.jpg

    This was oak by the way. Once the box is put together, it is not really visible so it never bothered me that much, I was just curious

    Many thanks for all the links Jim. I confess I always have the same issue but never tried to look for a solution on the web.
    Next time I need to do this, I will read your advices again and try to implement the solution of the depth stop and advance the cutter gradually..

    Thank you for your help
    Last edited by Axel de Pugey; 10-28-2020 at 5:10 AM.

  5. #20
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    Glad to be of help Axel.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  6. #21
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    Mounting hinges can be as simple as hanging them on the back of a box. It can also take on the mystery of medieval sorcery.

    The first paralysis of analysis comes from determining the spacing.

    One way is to just measure in equally from the ends and be done with it. Why should things be so bland?

    Installing them to look balanced can be a challenge.

    Years ago a Fibonacci Divider was made and comes in handy for this kind of thing. It is based on a number called Phi, 1.618, also known as the golden ratio. (1:1.618 or 0.618:1)

    A divider is used to find center and the Fibonacci Divider’s outside legs are set to the length of the box:

    f Centering Hinge Layout.jpg

    Then the outside leg and the center leg are centered on this point. For something like this a friction dividers is much easier than one having a threaded adjustment. This sets the point for the outside of the hinges. The hinges are used to make a light pencil line around the edges which is then laid in with a marking gauge, a square and a knife. In this method make the knife lines inside the pencil lines. Making a small mortise bigger is easier than making one made too large smaller.

    A chisel makes quick work of clearing the mortise:

    f Clearing Hinge Mortise.jpg

    In this case the hinges for the top compartment’s lid were done first.

    The hinges being used for this are inexpensive economy hinges. The leaves do not close flat to each other. This required the lower mortise to be cut deeper. After the first shaving was removed the chisel was used to reestablish the side and back scribing of the mortise to remove another shaving. This was done until the hinge set in the mortise with the opposite leaf’s inside edge being in line with the top of the mortise:

    f Fit Test.jpg

    It may not be clearly visible in the image but the hinge leaves are being held parallel by having shavings from clearing the mortise placed between them.

    When the first pair of hinge mortises are finished their location can be transferred to the bottom of this compartment and the top of the lower compartment:

    f Transferring Marks.jpg

    The lower compartment is held in the vise and the upper compartment is held in alignment by clamps. A square is lined up to the first hinge mortise by placing the knife point inside the mortise against the edge. The marks are then struck with a knife on the bottom of the top compartment and the top of the bottom compartment. This is best done with a thin knife.

    After marking and cutting the mortises the hinges can be mounted. Here the hinge has been checked for flush and the centers for the screws are being marked:

    f1 Checking Hinge Fit & Center Marking.jpg

    The screws are #2 X 1/2”. The shank pilot size is 3/32”. The depth being also ~3/32” it seemed it would be easy to do this without mechanical aid:

    f1 Screw Shank Pilot.jpg

    This is a small chuck for use in a brace. It is also easy to use as a chuck for freehand drilling. After these were all drilled an egg beater was used to drill a 1/16” pilot hole for the threads of the screw.

    There is usually a chunk of wax setting on the bench. Rubbing screws on the wax makes a big difference, especially with brass screws, to facilitate installing them. An interesting discovery was made with this batch of screws. Starting the screws with the slot running in line with the edge of the box ended up with the screw being snug with the slot at 90º to its starting position. Being a little CDO, having all the slots pointing the same way is a joy:

    f1 Timed It Is.jpg

    They also look better than the cheap Phillips head screws that came with the hinges.

    To be continued,

    jtk
    Last edited by Jim Koepke; 10-30-2020 at 1:00 PM.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  7. #22
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    Finally on the home stretch. This is where one needs to exercise care as there can be a temptation to rush to the finish line.

    The flat head screws for the hinges are 1/2” long. This would have been too long to use on the solid top without cutting them. My plan was to use 1/4” round head screws to hold the latches instead of the little nails that came with them. With the hinges having a gap between the leaves when closed this seemed like a good way to go. A hinge was attached to a piece of scrap to check the 1/4” screw’s holding power and it held fine.

    The 1/4” #2 round head screws were too small for my big fingers:

    g Starting Small Screw.jpg

    It is helpful not having sold my tools from previous careers. This screw starter doesn’t get used a lot but it and all of its ilk are appreciated when they are used.

    Note the stack of scraps supporting the lid as it is being attached.

    With all the hinges in place, the next step is to install two latches. This starts by locating and marking center:

    g1 Marking Center.jpg

    The center is carried down to the edges between the upper and lower compartments. After screw placements are marked with an awl they are also carried down with pencil marks. The pilot holes for these were drilled using the freehand chuck. The turns were counted and the bit was used with my thumbnail to gauge the depth:

    g2 Drilling For Latch Plate.jpg

    There is usually a little bit of wood fiber at the edge of a drilled hole. This was removed with a chisel to keep the fibers from creating a lifting effect on the small brass hardware.

    Finally it is done! The box was given a coating of furniture oil/wax:

    g2 It's Done!!!.jpg

    The furniture oil/wax tends to make any plane tracks show up. There weren’t any visible at this point. The slight misalignments of the edges between the upper and lower compartment were easy to correct with a small bench plane.

    My friend will most likely repurpose this box since he stores files in a rack. It will hold them well with some extra packing for shipping:

    g3 Bottom Compartment.jpg

    The chisels in the top compartment stay in place when the bottom compartment is opened:

    g3 Top Compartment.jpg

    This project has given me a strange desire to make more multi-compartment boxes even though there doesn't seem to be any reason to do so, we shall see.

    jtk
    Last edited by Jim Koepke; 10-31-2020 at 3:48 PM. Reason: Note the stack of scraps supporting
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  8. #23
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    Really nice work, Jim. I think you might have gone overboard with the Fibonacci dividers though!🧐

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Best View Post
    Really nice work, Jim. I think you might have gone overboard with the Fibonacci dividers though!��
    Thanks Tim, the divider is just hanging around the shop so it may as well get used.

    It is kind of a joke though to maybe impress that the hinges can be placed by any method from just setting them by eye all the way to using rocket science if one so desires.

    It is also easy to set them in from the edges 1/6 or 1/4 of the length. Those would be ratios of thirds or halfs.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  10. #25
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    Finally, I get to see the finished pics!

    Looks very cool.

  11. #26
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    JK, thanks for the awesome build thread exclamation market really appreciate you taking the time to provide the pictures and descriptions of your text me I really learned a lot. For example, never thought about filling the grooves and drawer bottoms before assembly – always just wedged the plug-in afterwards. Duuuuh, your way is much better. Also you had me at "Fibonacci dividers" – yeah I want some of those! Do I know what they are – hell no, still very cool.

    Jim really appreciate you sharing your experience and craftsmanship. Following your thread was a super fun ride – interesting and inspirational. At the end of the day, if you're an OCD guy like me don't you have to admit life is simpler when everything has a box it belongs in – right? That's my story and I'm sticking with it!

    Thanks again Jim for posting!

  12. #27
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    Thanks for the kind words Mike.

    if you're an OCD guy like me
    Do you mean CDO? It looks better in alphabetical order.

    There is a little more to this saga, making the cardboard box to ship it in. Also set a small diamond stone into a piece of mahogany to help keep his kitchen knives in good order.

    life is simpler when everything has a box it belongs in – right?
    A place for everything and everything in its place. In my shop some of those places are a jumble of similar things together.

    This may look like a mess to some:

    Box for Chisels.jpg

    There is actually an order to this. It has grown to being totally full since this was taken. There is another box like this with small carving gouges.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  13. #28
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    This is now in the hands of the USPS.

    My plan for the visit that never happened was to take my sharpening stones along to put my friends knives and such in order. He is not well equipped for sharping. My intent was to also give him a small diamond stone for touch ups in the kitchen. There was extra room in the box. So a holder was made for the stone and included.

    Here is the Veritas Miniature Router Plane being used on a piece of mahogany:

    Veritas Mini Router on Mahogany.jpg

    This was my first real use of this little router. It took a little getting used to the size but worked well at the job. The locking screw needs to be tightened down well or the vibrations can wiggle it loose. The little router was much easier than trying to do this with my full size router plane.

    The diamond stone was set in place with epoxy. The sides were given a light groove with a plow plane which was followed with a round plane to make finger holds:

    Mounted Diamond Stone.jpg

    The image is a bit soft focus because of condensation on the lens. This wasn’t noticed until it was already packed.

    Making cardboard boxes is a bit different than making one of wood.

    Using a tee square and a 4’ rule the box was lain out on the outside surface. About an extra inch was added for padding and to compensate for the thickness of the cardboard. This was then checked by setting the wooden box on the layout:

    Checking Layout..jpg

    Another tool saved from a previous occupation came in handy here, an electric eraser. Learning from my mistakes has made me a very learned man.

    First, just like wooden boxes, it is a lot easier if everything starts square:

    Squaring Cut.jpg

    Many years ago in the printing trades one of my employers taught me a few tricks of cardboard box making by hand. Here are a few. The bench is covered, in this case, with a piece of scrap 1/4” plywood. Also note the long rule is held down by clamps. For this box the fold lines are lain out at 7”. The starting point is from a previous fold on the box from which this piece was salvaged. Also visible on the second fold line from the left in the image is where there was a handhold cut in the box. This was covered with tape inside and out.

    The box knife blade was sharpened before starting work on this box. When cutting cardboard, start with a very light cut. For the first cut the focus should be on keeping the blade against the guide. The first cut will help guide the knife on each following cut.

    An extra inch and a half was left on one edge for adhering on the inside with hot melt glue. It makes folding in the end flaps easier if there is a bit cut off of this piece:

    End Bevel on Glue Flap.jpg

    For cutting the end flaps there should be a space between them about the thickness of the cardboard being used. Marking the end of the cut is neat and easy with a small carving gouge:

    Round Cuts for End Flaps.jpg

    My original plan was for the end flaps to be sized to the inside dimensions of the box. The thickness of the cardboard made this difficult.

    Folding the cardboard where desired is made easy by first scoring it. My tool for this purpose was made from a salvaged riffler file that broke and was discarded during my employment working on transit vehicles:

    Scoring Fold Line.jpg

    This was ground round on the bottom side. My boss in the print shop would use the backside of a box knife with the blade retracted. The plan is to crease the cardboard without tearing the surface.

    As mentioned earlier, the end flaps were originally planned to be the full size of the inside dimensions of the box. This looked a bit sloppy so their length was cut to half the inside dimension and the final check looked good:

    Final Check.jpg

    Hot melt glue was generously applied to the small flap and held in place with a piece of wood, longer than the box and clamped at both ends to the bench to set. The seam was taped on the outside. My old boss mentioned these seams are always finding something to tear them apart.

    In the morning we received a package via UPS that had a lot of paper padding included. One piece of this was used to wrap the wooden box. The bubble wrap that was included was also used to pad the wooden box all around.

    Tape was also wrapped around the outside of the cardbaord box near both ends. My roll of tape was bought close to 30 years ago from a independent jobber who would buy all kinds of surplus and sell them to the public. He had acquired the ‘mother rolls’ of packing tape that were over a foot in diameter. It cost me $2. There is still about a five inch diameter left on a shop made dispenser with a piece of hacksaw blade for a cutter.

    Hope you all have enjoyed the saga,

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  14. #29
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    Also you had me at "Fibonacci dividers" – yeah I want some of those! Do I know what they are – hell no, still very cool.
    Forgot to include a link to this:

    Fibonacci Golden Ratio Phi Dividers

    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?223546

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

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