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Thread: A tough day with poplar

  1. #1
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    A tough day with poplar

    I picked up rough poplar to make drawer interiors for a big built-in. The yard only had 4/4 stock. I wanted them down to 5/8”, so after jointing one side flat, I used a band saw (1.25” carbide-toothed blade) to remove most of the waste. I figured this would be easy because I just got the resharpened blade back from Laguna.

    Well, it was slow going! It took three minutes to saw a board 4.5” wide, 20” long. The surfaces were quite smooth, but singed. There was no way I could continue with the 55 remaining sides and backs. So I turned to the planer.

    The DeWalt 735 had recently undergone replacement of the cutter (LuxCut helical head). The first 16 boards went easily, with nice results. I lowered the cutter by 1/3rd of a turn after each pass (my usual). But then the internal circuit-breaker flipped. It took a long time to get the motor to run again, and when it did, the feed rollers weren’t working. I found the drive belt half melted way, and torn for the rest of its width. So the motor spins but nothing else does, till I get a new belt.

    Is this a lesson that poplar is more difficult to work than I knew? Has anybody got any advice?

  2. #2
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    The blade is messed up, a sharp blade should make a cut like that much faster. The burnt look is telling you that the teeth are dull, creating heat. I would do that kind of cut with a 1/2" 3 TPI blade, it will not be quite as smooth but the kerf is a lot narrower so it should cut faster.

  3. #3
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    is your blade upside down?

  4. #4
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    Poplar is soft and is normally quite easy to work with. I suspect equipment problems.

  5. #5
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    The planer could have a loose motor pulley or when you installed the new cutter you got the pulley backwards or the bushing behind it backwards.

  6. #6
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    Something is very much amiss with the bandsaw...I vote to check that the blade isn't on upside down, too. Teeth should be pointing in the direction the band moves...downward where they engage the wood.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  7. #7
    Poplar works essentially the same as softwood. So no, it is not difficult to cut or plane. I know nothing about helical heads but is it possible the helical cutter takes more power? I don't think so, what I read suggests it takes less. I've only recently upgraded to a better bandsaw but I've already cut over 5 inch slices of a pine scrap with a 1/2 3tpi blade and it went through it easily - I would expect poplar to cut the same. But I'm not sure I would cut it down with the bandsaw if I was removing only 1/8. If I had a good resaw blade I guess I might. But my little lunchbox planner would take that eighth off easily. And I can sharpen those blades.

  8. #8
    100% that it’s an equipment issue. Like others have mentioned, I suspect either upside-down or extremely dull BS blade and maybe you were trying to remove too much stock per pass on the new cutterhead. Helicals/spirals are not capable of removing as much stock per pass as a straight-knife head and benchtop-style machines exaggerate that. I would obviously get a replacement belt but try creeping up on a good cut depth once it’s running again. Poplar should be very easy to machine. Good luck with everything.

    Erik
    Ex-SCM and Felder rep

  9. #9
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    Even my 1.5 HP Rikon band saw would make that cut in a fraction of the time. I agree with blade issues.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Loza View Post
    100% that it’s an equipment issue. Like others have mentioned, I suspect either upside-down or extremely dull BS blade and maybe you were trying to remove too much stock per pass on the new cutterhead. Helicals/spirals are not capable of removing as much stock per pass as a straight-knife head and benchtop-style machines exaggerate that. I would obviously get a replacement belt but try creeping up on a good cut depth once it’s running again. Poplar should be very easy to machine. Good luck with everything.

    Erik
    Erik, first I heard about the helical not capable of removing as much per cut. Very interested as I have an 8" helical jointer in the crate waiting on me. Have only used straight knives in the past. Would you please expand on the difference between the different heads. I bought for reduced noise per wife request. Looking to change one 12" planer over in the future. One Benchtop, two floor machines.
    Thank you
    Ron

    Already familiar with cut quality, noise and knife discussion.
    Last edited by Ron Selzer; 10-17-2020 at 11:17 AM. Reason: Add paragraph

  11. #11
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    No, the blade wasn’t upside down. I was taking off 3/8” to get a 4/4 board down to 5/8”.

    It is a “resaw” blade, but it had just been sharpened. The steel band is 1/64” thick, and the carbide teeth are 1/32”. (I don’t know what they used to be). If there’s no kerf, then the gap between the kerf side and steel blade is 1/128”.

    Maybe you can’t resharpen these blades?
    Maybe a resaw blade assumes a thin (flexible) veneer is coming off one side, relieving any friction? (Wrong blade for the job?)

    I thought I might have filed them off by setting the ceramic guides incorrectly, but the blade is so wide that the teeth just can’t get to the ceramics.

    As for the planer, maybe I didn’t re-seat the belt correctly. I have heard that the helical head requires a smaller cut with each pass, but I thought my ‘standard’ cut was already conservative.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Kenagy View Post

    Maybe you can’t resharpen these blades?
    Maybe a resaw blade assumes a thin (flexible) veneer is coming off one side, relieving any friction? (Wrong blade for the job?)

    I thought I might have filed them off by setting the ceramic guides incorrectly, but the blade is so wide that the teeth just can’t get to the ceramics.

    As for the planer, maybe I didn’t re-seat the belt correctly. I have heard that the helical head requires a smaller cut with each pass, but I thought my ‘standard’ cut was already conservative.

    Few notes that came to my mind.

    1) A 1.25 inch blade on a bandsaw is HUGE. You must have a big saw. I run a 17 inch 2hp Grizzly and hesitate to run a 1 inch blade, I find a 3/4 is really better suited as the max size. Tensioning a bigger blade is a problem, as is the power to run it.

    2) A resaw blade isn't just for veneer. Heck, it's meant to do what you're doing. If the blade is burning then it's a equipment problem. Maybe it's not tracking straight through the work, dull, etc. Not sure about sharpening carbide bandsaw blades...

    3) Helical heads supposedly require more power to run in a planer or jointer. I've converted a jointer from straight knife to helical and frankly never noticed the need for more power, but maybe it's true if you're on the hairy edge of acceptable. Planers aren't really made to jam material through anyways (huge depth of cut), so I don't think, for a model like your Dewalt, that the head mades any difference to depth of cut allowance.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Selzer View Post
    Erik, first I heard about the helical not capable of removing as much per cut. Very interested as I have an 8" helical jointer in the crate waiting on me. Have only used straight knives in the past. Would you please expand on the difference between the different heads..
    Ron, the reason is amount of knife projection out of the cutterhead. Straight-knife heads (except Tersa) have a lot more knife sticking out from the OD of the cutterhead than spirals/helicals do. Can remove more material in a pass but louder/rougher/etc.

    Erik
    Ex-SCM and Felder rep

  14. #14
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    Carbide insert heads cut with a high angle it’s really more of a scraping cut. Very small forward rake compared to knifes in a jointer or planer. If you look closely at a bryd head you will see a 30 degree face bevel on the insert. This acts like a chip breaker curling the cut up.
    one comparison is the blade in your or my miter saw has very little forward compared to my table saw blade.
    Carbide also doesn’t get nearly as sharp as high speed steel. But can handle to friction from the scraping cut.
    I prefer high speed steel in my jointer because I feed a variety of woods by hand. And I don’t like to add pressure on the wood I’m trying to face.
    Thats my un scientific position on this topic.

    Good Luck
    Aj

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Loza View Post
    Ron, the reason is amount of knife projection out of the cutterhead. Straight-knife heads (except Tersa) have a lot more knife sticking out from the OD of the cutterhead than spirals/helicals do. Can remove more material in a pass but louder/rougher/etc.

    Erik
    Thanks, that makes sense
    Ron

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