Jump from a 9" to a 12" dovetail saw??

[steven c newman]

This is the one I used over the past weekend..
Chisel box, No. 68.JPG
It had been freshly sharpened about a month ago....Disston No. 68

I thought about giving the Bishop No. 10 a try..
Chisel box, Bishop try out.JPG
Just a bit too large....

[Jim Koepke]

If you are looking for a single stroke dovetail saw, especially helpful when gang cutting dovetails, check this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfoEZKobbls

jtk

[Mike Henderson]

I have the 11” Veritas 12 tpi rip saw. I’ve used it for dovetails in 3/4” material, and I used it for everything before I got an actual 14 tpi dovetail saw. I think it does cut a little faster than a smaller, higher tpi saw in thicker material. It is a little awkward to use in 1/2” or thinner material. I think the tooth count makes a bigger difference to me than the size of the saw.

I could see someone preferring one size or the other for purely personal reasons, and it seems like either would work fine as long as the tooth count is appropriate for the material you are cutting.

That's a very good point about the tooth count. I have a number of dovetail saws, both Lie Nielsen and Lee Valley. One of the Lee Valley saws is 20TPI. Next time I'm sawing really thin material, I'll use the 20 tooth and see is that works better - just based on the idea of keeping a certain number of teeth in the work.

Never thought about that before.

Mike

[Stephen Rosenthal]

Among the backsaws that I use for dovetails, I have an 8” Adria (15tpi) and a 12” Disston (13tpi), the latter I would classify as a carcass saw rather than dovetail. I inevitably reach for the Adria. I like the feel and it’s easier to control. It’s a little hard to start, (that’s probably the set more than anything), but once it gets going it cuts beautifully and laser straight. I have sash and tenon saws from Bad Axe and they’re great saws, but I’ve never been tempted to add their dovetail saw and would opt for their traditional 10” version rather than the long bayonet.

[Josh Robinson]

Not mentioned is a larger saw will have a different balance point and hang angle.

I tend to "steer" smaller saws where my larger saws track without much intervention.

I would suggest that a 14" backsaw may have broader utility than a 12" dedicated dovetail saw.

Full disclosure - after ten years cutting dovetails, mine still look like they were laid out by a three legged goat on a bender.

Three legged goat on a bender....😆

[Derek Cohen]

The choice is always going to be personal. My preference is a 9-10” long plate. I also prefer a slightly lower plate, around 2” deep. Smaller equals more control.

The largest dovetails are around 7/8” deep. My drawers range from. 3/4” front, of which 5/8” is sawn on the angle, and 1/4” sides, which are a soft wood. All these situations require a slightly different tooth count and angle.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Ron Bontz]

Interesting thread. As you can see there are many opinions based on personal experience. I have , hiding in my dovetail drawer, a 6", 9", 10" and 12" dovetail saw. The 6" is 0.015" plate, as is one of my 10", and 12" plates. The tooth count varies from 15ppi to 20ppi, depending on the saw. SOOO for what it is worth; Just my personal opinion. The 12" version does indeed affect the balance of the saw. The heavier handles, stabilized maple burls, ebony, etc., seem too balance this out a bit. The longer stroke may or may not cut deeper per stroke depending on the filing and ppi. The 12" version may work a little better on gang ripping dovetail tails, etc., but beyond that I see no substantial advantage to the 12" over the 9" or 10". Just preference mainly. We could discuss the different saws for quite a while, but people have been cutting fine dovetails for hundreds of years with 6" to 9" dovetail saws with 0.020" to 0.025" plates. It is more about ppi, filing, preference and comfort. The latest is not always the greatest, but it never hurts to keep one's mind open and try something different. Hmmmm. I feel an article may some time be in order discussing the trends, pros and cons of this topic. Take care.

[Jim Koepke]

All these situations require a slightly different tooth count and angle.

Sounds like a good point to bring up with the missus when a new dovetail saw is desired.

jtk

[ken hatch]

Interesting thread. As you can see there are many opinions based on personal experience. I have , hiding in my dovetail drawer, a 6", 9", 10" and 12" dovetail saw. The 6" is 0.015" plate, as is one of my 10", and 12" plates. The tooth count varies from 15ppi to 20ppi, depending on the saw. SOOO for what it is worth; Just my personal opinion. The 12" version does indeed affect the balance of the saw. The heavier handles, stabilized maple burls, ebony, etc., seem too balance this out a bit. The longer stroke may or may not cut deeper per stroke depending on the filing and ppi. The 12" version may work a little better on gang ripping dovetail tails, etc., but beyond that I see no substantial advantage to the 12" over the 9" or 10". Just preference mainly. We could discuss the different saws for quite a while, but people have been cutting fine dovetails for hundreds of years with 6" to 9" dovetail saws with 0.020" to 0.025" plates. It is more about ppi, filing, preference and comfort. The latest is not always the greatest, but it never hurts to keep one's mind open and try something different. Hmmmm. I feel an article may some time be in order discussing the trends, pros and cons of this topic. Take care.

Ron,

Please do. Some clarity would be nice, and I know bottom line is what blows your skirt but it would be nice to understand the reasons for the wind.

ken

[Clifford McGuire]

The choice is always going to be personal. My preference is a 9-10” long plate. I also prefer a slightly lower plate, around 2” deep. Smaller equals more control.

The largest dovetails are around 7/8” deep. My drawers range from. 3/4” front, of which 5/8” is sawn on the angle, and 1/4” sides, which are a soft wood. All these situations require a slightly different tooth count and angle.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I'd love to learn more Derek. I do all my practicing on poplar. Most of my 'good enough to leave the shop' projects are maple and cherry. Thickness varies from 3/8" to 3/4"

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Clifford ... some thoughts ....

Let's take the average drawer I might build.

The drawer front will be around 20mm thick and a hardwood. Often Jarrah, which is short-grained and interlocked. The saw is expected to take about 4-5 short strokes at 45 degrees (half-blind). If the workpiece is especially brittle, it may be better using a higher tooth count, such as 20 tpi. If not brittle, just hard, the saw usually chosen is 15 tpi, and for an aggressive cut, a low rake angle (3-5 degrees). Someone starting out is likely to find my saws too aggressive, and would prefer a more relaxed rake, somewhere around 8-14 degrees.

The drawer sides are generally a softer wood, such as Tasmanian Oak (similar in characteristics to the average White Oak). These pieces are 6-8mm thick. Dovetail saws with a higher tooth count are again preferred, such as 19-20 tpi. Relax the rake increasingly as the wood becomes softer. Now if the Tasmanian Oak was 22mm thick, such as a case or carcase, I would choose a coarser set up, such as 12-15 tpi.

It's not terribly complicated: softer or thinner boards = more rake and/or more tpi; harder or thicker woods = less rake and/or less tpi;

Regards from Perth

Derek