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Thread: Jump from a 9" to a 12" dovetail saw??

  1. #1

    Jump from a 9" to a 12" dovetail saw??

    I've been using a 9" Independence Tool DT saw for many years. I'm starting to think about getting something else. I was looking at the Bad Axe site and, according to their site, the 12" "will be the last saw I'll ever own".

    That seems like quite a jump. What can I expect?

    (I mostly make boxes and some drawers. 1/2" to 3/4" thick and mostly hardwoods. But sometimes I practice on softwoods (poplar).)

  2. #2
    Why are you thinking of getting another dovetail saw? A 9" saw for the kind of wood we generally work with (3/4" or so) should be very adequate.

    Mike

    [If your saw is not working well, perhaps it needs to be sharpened.]
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    The independence saw is (I understand, but have not ever used one) a nice saw. It is roughly 9" long (for the blade). I was under the impression that this was a nice saw, but I have never used one.


    • I have a 9" Lie Nielsen saw
    • I have a 9.25" Lee Valley saw
    • I have a 10" Bad Axe dovetail saw and I used it for years. Love it. (Doc Holliday)


    Are you noticing a pattern? Most dovetails saws seem to be around that size. All of these saws have a roughly 2" depth to the blade.


    I am a bit surprised that the "standard" dovetail saw at Bad Axe is now listed as the 12" saw. I ordered a 12" Bad Axe dovetail saw some years back (Wyatt Earp), but the Wyatt Earp has a deeper depth of cut than the 12" Stiletto (which is about 2"). Off hand, I would probably use the Stiletto more than the Wyatt Earp because I have never cut a dovetail deeper than my other saws can cut. I have made other cuts deeper than that, but that is the exception for what I do, not the norm.

    I find the larger Wyatt Earp to be a bit heavier than what I want for regular dovetails, but the Stiletto with the smaller plate should not have that problem. I would be surprised if you did not love it. If you are mostly cutting dovetails in 1/2" stock, you probably do not need the extra length, however. The length does you no good if you do not use it. If you do use it, however, you can go longer without sharpening and this will allow you to cut thicker stock , even when it is ganged together so you are cutting two boards at once.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Clifford McGuire View Post
    I've been using a 9" Independence Tool DT saw for many years. I'm starting to think about getting something else. I was looking at the Bad Axe site and, according to their site, the 12" "will be the last saw I'll ever own".

    That seems like quite a jump. What can I expect?

    (I mostly make boxes and some drawers. 1/2" to 3/4" thick and mostly hardwoods. But sometimes I practice on softwoods (poplar).)
    Clifford,

    I have one and it is a really nice saw. Is it worth the money, depends on how much you like your money and how much you like saw "bling". Truth is about half the time when cutting dove tails I'll use one of the LV dovetail saws, works just as well and a lot cheaper. But then I've never been able to feel the differences in most tools to write a review. The bottom line is, is the saw sharp, if it is just about any saw is good. If not, it ain't.

    ken

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Henderson View Post
    Why are you thinking of getting another dovetail saw? A 9" saw for the kind of wood we generally work with (3/4" or so) should be very adequate.
    Mike,

    No real reason. Just kicking the tires. I've had the IT saw since 1999 (it's a first run) and I've never used anything else. Used occasionally in the past, this year I've really gotten into hand cut DTs and plan on doing many more.

    I'm wondering what I might be missing.

  6. #6
    i've used many different DT saws from 8" to 12" lengths. The 8" saws (Wenzloff and Adria) just seemed too short and limited the stroke length. Most of my saws are in the 9"-10" range, and I prefer the 10": again, it seems to be a good fit in terms of stroke length. I have the Stiletto and its very nice, but it does not fit in my DT saw cabinet, and to be honest, I just as soon use the 10" saws conveniently stored in the wall cabinet, and not bother opening a drawer to dig out the Stiletto. So right there, that tells you that there is a point of diminishing returns when it comes to DT saw length, and I believe it not far north of 10".

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clifford McGuire View Post
    Mike,

    No real reason. Just kicking the tires. I've had the IT saw since 1999 (it's a first run) and I've never used anything else. Used occasionally in the past, this year I've really gotten into hand cut DTs and plan on doing many more.

    I'm wondering what I might be missing.
    If you have not get that thing sharpened it will be like a new saw.

  8. #8
    Isn't the Independence Saw the same as the one Lie Nielsen sells now? That's a very nice saw. I know LN will sharpen their saws for $25 (you pay postage to them, they pay postage back to you) so maybe they'll sharpen the Independence saw.

    I had them sharpen a progressive saw of theirs (which they don't sell any more) and it was just $25.

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  9. #9
    Pete Taran made that saw and is a frequent poster here: I'll bet he would be happy to sharpen that for you.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Gaudio View Post
    Pete Taran made that saw and is a frequent poster here: I'll bet he would be happy to sharpen that for you.
    It still cuts well and I enjoy using it.

    It's just after using it for 21 years, I'm thinking about trying something else. I was just curious about the difference between a 9" and 12".

  11. #11
    I think there is little downside to trying a longer saw (other than the $$ invested). Ideally you would be able to try a number of saws and choose the one that felt right. As I mentioned above, the sawing dynamics will feel different as you are able to take a longer cutting stroke. You will also notice a change in the weight and balance of the saw: hard to say if that will be a plus or a minus, but it will probably be overshadowed by the aforementioned sawing dynamics. Only way to find out for sure is to jump in and try one out. There is a very healthy secondary market for high end WW tools so worst case scenario is you don't favor the saw and end up selling it. Good luck with your decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clifford McGuire View Post
    It still cuts well and I enjoy using it.

    It's just after using it for 21 years, I'm thinking about trying something else. I was just curious about the difference between a 9" and 12".

  12. #12
    Join Date
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    I was just curious about the difference between a 9" and 12".
    About 3".

    Often in thin stock, one of my 9" (?) DT saws may only take one stroke to the base line. A 12" saw wouldn't be very advantageous.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  13. #13
    Join Date
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    I have the 11” Veritas 12 tpi rip saw. I’ve used it for dovetails in 3/4” material, and I used it for everything before I got an actual 14 tpi dovetail saw. I think it does cut a little faster than a smaller, higher tpi saw in thicker material. It is a little awkward to use in 1/2” or thinner material. I think the tooth count makes a bigger difference to me than the size of the saw.

    I could see someone preferring one size or the other for purely personal reasons, and it seems like either would work fine as long as the tooth count is appropriate for the material you are cutting.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    Not mentioned is a larger saw will have a different balance point and hang angle.

    I tend to "steer" smaller saws where my larger saws track without much intervention.

    I would suggest that a 14" backsaw may have broader utility than a 12" dedicated dovetail saw.

    Full disclosure - after ten years cutting dovetails, mine still look like they were laid out by a three legged goat on a bender.

  15. #15
    I have used an 8 inch dovetail saw for 40 years. The traditional standard is about nine inches. Nicholosn (1812) mentions 9 inches for a dovetail saw. The dovetail saw in the Seaton chest (1796) is also 9 inches. Bad Axe does not seem to offer a traditional saw. It is as if they think they know more than people who actually use saws.

    The Bad Axe saw also has a handle that extends down below the tooth line. This also is never seen on traditional saws, which have the have the handles angled up well above the tooth line. One of the reasons for this is so that we can use the saw on a side hook (bench hook). We sometimes use dovetail saws for cutting small mouldings et cetera. It would not work with these poorly designed saws.

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