Hammer A3-31 Disaster!

[Jim Becker]

Robert, part of the appeal for J/P combos is the wide jointing capacities that match the thicknessing function. That's the primary reason I bought one years ago. Having both in one space is certainly nice, but that wasn't my prime reason for going that route. And bed length has never been an issue for me, either. There are always subjective factors that come into play when choosing our gear and it's nice to have those choices!

[Andy D Jones]

The shop space advantage of a combo is not just in storage space, or in use space when either is used exclusively of the other, especially when compared to a lunchbox planer, and a less-wide jointer.

When considering the working space for both machines, when preparing rough stock, and accounting for infeed and outfeed space of each operation, even a lunchbox planer requires just as much working space as a 12" jointer. And it cannot completely share that space with a separate jointer, unless you move each out of the way to use the other.

Standard stock preparation procedures call for using the two machines together, usually alternating from face jointing to thickness planing, and back to edge jointing. If the grain is in your favor, you might joint the first edge immediately following face jointing, and avoid one of those two change-overs or machine swaps. With separate machines, efficient processing requires both to be set up, ready to run, with appropriate in/out-feed space, at the same time. It takes less than a minute to switch a combo J/P from one to the other, less than the time to move separate jointer and planer in and out of the way within the same shop footprint.

A separate 16" jointer and planer is out of the question in my small garage shop (which still has to be a garage at the end of each day), so a combo is the only way I could hope for 16" jointing and planing capabilities. As an added bonus, the 16" J/P has significantly longer jointing tables (longer still with extensions) than the 12" combo.

Is that choice and flexibility expensive? You bet! But compared to what? A bigger shop, with equivalent, separate machines, is MUCH more expensive!

But if you already have the shop space to work both separate machines virtually simultaneously, and can live with face jointing boards much narrower than you can thickness, then a lunchbox planer and a medium size jointer can work well.

For that matter, hand planes can work just as well, at much less cost, and in far less space.

There is no single solution that is best for every situation.

-- Andy - Arlington TX

[Derek Cohen]

I recently sold my A3-31 that I bought used for a fantastic price on Craigslist. They are not worth what they cost new at all. I ended up getting a Jet 8" with a helical head AND a Dewalt DW735 for only $200 more than what I sold the Felder for. A helical for the A3 was $1100 alone. The dewalt lunchbox can easily be stored under a work table, so its not like the 2 machines take up much more room than the felder. I cannot imagine paying $5000 for combo machine with REALLY short beds, then having to turn around and pay even more money for extension tables.

Robert, about 6 or 7 years ago I traded in an 8” jointer plus 12 1/2” lunchbox planer for the A3-31. A primary reason was that this was (and remains) an economical way to obtain a wider jointer. The length of the bed is not an issue, and never has been. The furniture I build has only once in the time required that I joint a couple of boards that necessitated the add-on bed extension. I love the fact that the machine can be compact and not be restricted in any way. The key dimension for a jointer is width and not length.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Brian Holcombe]

Try making dining tables with it and you’ll gain a new appreciation for length. Length is quite important and cast iron table is better than extension table.

[Mark e Kessler]

My table length is about 86.5” on an AD941, of I was doing 8’ boards all the time I would want longer beds, 6-7’ does fine. An extension for me is only extra support after the cut and I have the cast iron one. I would always want the longest bed I could get/fit...

[Andrew Hughes]

I have 99 inches of cast iron beds. I can perfectly joint 12 ft boards I haven’t built a table that long but did try and found excellence. This board was ripped faced on one side and jointed back together
See pic below

[John Gornall]

First day with the A3 31 in my shop I did a basic check with measuring tools, put a plug on the cord, and cut wood. No extension tables, silent power head. I pulled a rough sawn board and milled it. 97 inches long, 6 inches wide, 1 inch thick. Finished 5 1/2" wide by 1/2" thick. No negatives. The A3 31 is a capable machine. Came across that board sorting the lumber pile tonight.

[Derek Cohen]

Try making dining tables with it and you’ll gain a new appreciation for length. Length is quite important and cast iron table is better than extension table.

Brian, if I was running a pro shop, as you do, I would not use an A3-31. It would be inefficient to change back-and-forth. If I was building long tables frequently, then I would want a longer bed for the jointer. I would also want support for the long boards running through the thicknesser/planer - a combination machine has limitations here since support tables do not work. I would also agree with you that a full length cast top would be preferred over aluminium extensions.

But I do none of these things. This is a machine in a home shop where I build medium-sized pieces. I have built many tables, but they do not run over 100". An example is this table top of two book-matched boards (about 100" to begin) ...





That was not difficult.

Neither were the panels here, which are about 50" but taken from a board around 80" - which had to be jointed and edge planned square before running through the bandsaw to create 2 x 1/4" thick panels ...








I can supply numerable examples of panels that end around the 60" mark, which means they started longer. This is about the extent of work for an amateur. I do not feel limited in this capacity. Your case could certainly be different.



Regards from Perth

Derek

[Brian Holcombe]

Length, weight and the type of distortion to the surface All have an effect on what length of support is needed. The most dramatic example would be a long board, very heavy that is bowed. Most often I attend to these with the curved side belly down to the table but it’s not always practical to do so, especially when edge jointing.

I have 86”~ of table and extension tables at the ready. They are used very commonly.

[Jim Becker]

Try making dining tables with it and you’ll gain a new appreciation for length. Length is quite important and cast iron table is better than extension table.

As always, common projects do indeed influence what's best. Folks frequently needing to work with longer lumber absolutely will be better served by something appropriate in bed length. I have no doubt that I'd be unhappy with my particular setup if I had more than occasional need to process longer stock whole. Having the slider helps, however.

[Julie Moriarty]

As always, common projects do indeed influence what's best. Folks frequently needing to work with longer lumber absolutely will be better served by something appropriate in bed length. I have no doubt that I'd be unhappy with my particular setup if I had more than occasional need to process longer stock whole. Having the slider helps, however.

When I was looking at buying the A3-31, my major criteria was space. When I'm jointing long boards, I set up roller supports. You make do with what you have.

[Ron Selzer]

When I'm jointing long boards, I set up roller supports. You make do with what you have.

So true.
Started with a 4" jointer way, way back. Made stand out of 2 x 4 with removable legs, a roller on the out feed side built on. Had a washing machine motor. Used 1x boards on roller stands as extensions when making door jambs. Could match up 8' lumber with no gap IF I set it up right and was careful how I fed it. Moved up to a 6" Jet jointer and still used the 4" when on job site. The Jet 30+ years later is down in the basement with a 8' extension on out feed side all the time. Another 8' extension is put on the infeed when jointing 5' and longer wood. Takes about 5 seconds to add or remove indeed table. Have a new 8" (76"+- top) waiting on me to move it in the basement and it will have extension tables made for it from the start. Don't have the width/ room needed for a 16" combo or that is what would be going in.
Ron

[Mark e Kessler]

Roller supports do not make up for a long table, ie you can not use them effectively for a reference surface support for before the cut and after the cut absolutely, when jointing you need to be referencing off the table and the table alone for superior results.

[Ron Selzer]

Roller supports do not make up for a long table, ie you can not use them effectively for a reference surface support for before the cut and after the cut absolutely, when jointing you need to be referencing off the table and the table alone for superior results.

I agree, this is why I used solid extension tables with roller stands when traveling, solid mounts in the shop. Roller stands for me cause as many issues as they help on the jointer.
Would love to have a 16" with 8' table, no way no how enough room for it.
Gotta make do the best you can with what got.
Ron

[Julie Moriarty]

Roller supports do not make up for a long table, ie you can not use them effectively for a reference surface support for before the cut and after the cut absolutely, when jointing you need to be referencing off the table and the table alone for superior results.

No they don't. And when you're using them you have to make sure they are a hair below the table height or set up a lot of them, closely spaced. Certainly not the perfect solution.

I had a Delta lunchbox planer that I mounted on a rolling cabinet. I made table extensions flush with the planer bed, with the outfeed end having a fold-down additional extension. It completely eliminated snipe and really made planing easier. I probably had that setup for over 15 years. I'm now looking into making extensions for the Hammer JP.