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Thread: Morning tails, lunch pins

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Libertyville, IL (Chicago - North)
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    360
    Tim, Intentionally, but slightly undercutting the baselines helps me close up the joint. To be clear, that means the very last chop, right on the gauge line angles in just a bit and it only half depth. I do the same thing from both sides. I keep the tail and pin sides as square as I can. Also, try a personal challenge to cut a practice set (or three) as fast as you can (all speed, not accuracy). That exercise helped me get over the hesitations and oddly, made me a more confident and effective sawyer.

  2. #17
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    Jan 2007
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    The Sunny Southeast
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    646
    At first it's all about minimizing gaps. As you keep working at this it will eventually progress to "too tight to assemble". Keep at it you'll get there.

    Ron

  3. #18
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    Sep 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Brese View Post
    At first it's all about minimizing gaps. As you keep working at this it will eventually progress to "too tight to assemble". Keep at it you'll get there.

    Ron
    When they are "too tight to assemble" a fine toothed rasp works great on reducing the pins. This is based on my cutting tails first. Adjusting the tails is done before marking the pin board. After that point the tail board is left alone unless some error on the tail board was missed.

    Some authors have suggested planing the pin board on the fat side of the pins to help them fit.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  4. #19
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    Feb 2020
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    Camarillo, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill McDermott View Post
    Tim, Intentionally, but slightly undercutting the baselines helps me close up the joint. To be clear, that means the very last chop, right on the gauge line angles in just a bit and it only half depth. I do the same thing from both sides. I keep the tail and pin sides as square as I can. Also, try a personal challenge to cut a practice set (or three) as fast as you can (all speed, not accuracy). That exercise helped me get over the hesitations and oddly, made me a more confident and effective sawyer.
    I’m far from an expert, but I feel the same way about speed and confidence when sawing. I feel like I get the best results when I commit and just go for it. When I am slow and tentative things start to get funky.

    to me it almost feels like trying to shoot a basketball or hit a golf ball. You have to get your body position and mechanics down through practice, but once you do it’s best to not think too much as you do it.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    twomiles from the "peak of Ohio
    Posts
    12,120
    Just takes practice..
    Chisel box PIP, handle view.JPG

    Areas between pins, and tails,
    Chisel box, pin cleaner.JPG
    I can flatten with either small "Needle Rasp" or that coping saw..always seems to be a bump right in the center...look between the two on the left...
    Chisel box, pins chopped.JPG
    Happens since I chop out the waste....

  6. #21
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    Sep 2007
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    Longview WA
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    The gauge for marking the base line on my current project was made to be about 1/16" greater than the thickness of the stock to produce proud tails & pins:

    Proud Pins & Tails Dry Fit.jpg

    This is how a corner looks after the tails & pins have been pared:

    d1 Finished Corner.jpg

    The glued in plugs for the two bottom panel grooves can be seen, but do not detract as much as they would if left as openings in the pins.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  7. #22
    2 drawers at once? What a great idea and the plug look fine to me.

  8. #23
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    Sep 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Hutchings View Post
    2 drawers at once? What a great idea and the plug look fine to me.
    Two drawers at once is a good idea.

    This is actually to be a two layer box with a hinged top and a hinge between the layers. The inspiration came from the box for Russell Jennings auger bits.

    My intent is to post on the making of it soon.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    Big Bend/Panhandle, FL
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    122
    Thanks, Ron. I intend to keep at it. I love a challenge...and learning.

    Tim

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    Big Bend/Panhandle, FL
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    122
    Jim, I am Looking forward to seeing finished project.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
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    Big Bend/Panhandle, FL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    When they are "too tight to assemble" a fine toothed rasp works great on reducing the pins. This is based on my cutting tails first. Adjusting the tails is done before marking the pin board. After that point the tail board is left alone unless some error on the tail board was missed. jtk
    I think today's dovetails could have benefitted from a rasp! These were cut pins first mostly because the last two days (not to mention the preceding 7 months) have been upside down for me so I decided to cut these "backwards." These are kind of ugly, fit way too tight, and cut from start to finish in under 30 mins. I am not sure if I classify these as a regression or not.

    Upsides: I managed to get the saw usably sharp, sawing action/mechanics do not feel as foreign as they did 10 days ago, I managed to stop using a gorilla grip on the saw handle when sawing.

    Downsides: None! I learned something, I have new things to try to make the dovetails look and fit better, my chisels are sharper than ever, and, after cutting dovetails basically every day for two weeks, I still have all my fingers. Have great weekend everyone.

    Friday DTs.jpgFriday DTs-3.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Perth, Australia
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    9,469
    I always aim for a flush fit. The reason is that I fit freshly glued drawers into the drawer case to dry to the shape of the case. This requires a little more care when marking baselines, etc.

    It is critical to get everything square when you transfer the marks (here, tails to pins) otherwise the box/drawer/carcase will not sit flat ...



    You know when everything will line up in the drawer at glue up .... when the dovetails on the last side just drop into their sockets ...





    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Ellsworth, Maine
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    1,805
    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Cohen View Post
    I always aim for a flush fit. The reason is that I fit freshly glued drawers into the drawer case to dry to the shape of the case. This requires a little more care when marking baselines, etc.

    It is critical to get everything square when you transfer the marks (here, tails to pins) otherwise the box/drawer/carcase will not sit flat ...



    You know when everything will line up in the drawer at glue up .... when the dovetails on the last side just drop into their sockets ...





    Regards from Perth

    Derek

    I used to aim for a flush fit and before that I aimed for an ever so slightly proud fit as Jim talks about. I now do neither and aim for my pin board to be completely above the end grain of the tail board, this is specifically aimed at drawer construction. I fit my drawer face to just fit into the opening. Therefore if my I have my tail board sitting ever so slightly proud of the that drawer front then the drawer will now not fit. This gives me a chance to plane the entire length of the drawer side until I reach the end grain of the drawer front and back. Then I can get my piston fit from there.

    In terms of getting a square alignment when transferring tails to my pins I always use the rabbet method. When this rabbet method isn't possible I use two layers of blue tape and use my marking gauge to make a blue tape rabbet. As long as I don't push the tail board hard against the pin board so no to bend the tape I end up with very square alignment. I prefer the rabbet method but I sometimes forget and sometimes the build doesn't make this possible.

    Aesthetics are another huge concern for my dovetails. My preference is always for wider tails with relatively narrow pins. This is mostly determined by the size of chisel I can fit inside the baseline of the tail board without damaging the tails. I actually really dislike the look of tails that get narrow at their baseline as well as when tails and pins are the same/similar size. But this is just a preference I have for the aesthetics of a piece and really holds no weight in terms of others aesthetics or the strength of the joint.

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    Big Bend/Panhandle, FL
    Posts
    122
    A special Sunday edition of dovetails. Some progress today. Baselines gaps remain, but that is product me being to aggressive with the chisel. The tails and pins fit really well with only minor fine tuning to get them to mate. More importantly, for me anyway, they fit mostly flush off the saw and they came together square. Perhaps one day soon a box will be the end result of all the cutting and chopping.

    Sunday DTs.jpgSunday DTs-2.jpgSunday DTs-3.jpgSunday DTs-4.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Ellsworth, Maine
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    1,805
    By the way Derek, I've learned so much of what I do today by reading your website and postings on this and other forums. You're really one of the best in terms of giving amazing advise for technique and aesthetics. We are lucky to have such a great resource like your website available to all of us and hope others just getting into this craft know and use it. You can spend days looking over the great articles there.

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