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Thread: S30 vs S 30C spindle

  1. #1
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    S30 vs S 30C spindle

    I'm in the process of building/ purchasing an Avid 4x8 pro machine. CNC Depot has an ATC spindle package for the Avid machine. They have two options that I'm looking at; the S30 (18,000rpm) and the S30C (24,000rpm ceramic bearings) the S30C is about 500 bucks more. I don't usually run my bits much over 18,000 rpm. Should I be? Is there any reason to spend more for the higher rpm? Is that for cutting aluminum? 500 is not much more, and I'm willing to spend the extra, if I need it. Thanks for the advice

  2. #2
    I built our CNC with a 3kW water cooled spindle, 6k to 24k rpm, and the only time it has been above 18k in the four years since I built it was to run a test to see if it will operate smoothly at 24k rpm. It runs fine and is very smooth and quiet but I just haven't needed to go over 18k rpm, fwiw. About all I cut is Walnut, Maple, and Cherry with the occasional acrylic or Plexiglas piece.

    David
    David
    CurlyWoodShop on Etsy, David Falkner on YouTube, difalkner on Instagram

  3. #3
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    I've never felt the need for up to 24K RPM...in fact, other than the really tiny .023" tooling I use for cutting fret slots and similar bits, I'm rarely running above 14-16K RPM.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  4. #4
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    The major difference in the two spindles is not speed. The ceramic bearings are much more precise but it comes with a trade off as the warmup procedure takes more time. Additionally you won't be changing out the ceramic bearings in your shop, the majority of manufacturers tell you that you must send the spindle back to the factory for repair. I read somewhere that they use a commercial clean room to rebuild spindles with ceramic bearings. I suspect the cost and downtime are major concerns for most people.

  5. #5
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    Keith, is there an application where the ceramic bearing equipped spindle is preferred?
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  6. #6
    If your machine (no idea about avid) is capable of getting up into high feed speeds and you will be running small tooling the higher rpms and precision may be handy. If your doing more typical wood processing perhaps less so. We have rarely done very high speed small diameter wood, brass, aluminum, where the rpms were handy.

    Spindle warmup is not an issue in day to day work. 10 minutes by the book is nothing at the start of the day and moreso with typical sheet processing your low stress low speed basic toolpaths (drilling) are at the start of a program so warmup is even less issue.

    There are numerous people who have rebuilt ceramic cartridges in house. Should everyone? Probably not. My guess is unless you are running the guts out of it or have a catastrophic crash.. rebuilding will never be a concern. Your talking thousands of hard hours.

  7. #7
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    Thanks for the replies, sounds like I'll probably just do the 18 k rpm spindle. I can't remember the last time I've ran over 16, let alone 18 k!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Buehler View Post
    I'm in the process of building/ purchasing an Avid 4x8 pro machine. CNC Depot has an ATC spindle package for the Avid machine. They have two options that I'm looking at; the S30 (18,000rpm) and the S30C (24,000rpm ceramic bearings) the S30C is about 500 bucks more. I don't usually run my bits much over 18,000 rpm. Should I be? Is there any reason to spend more for the higher rpm? Is that for cutting aluminum? 500 is not much more, and I'm willing to spend the extra, if I need it. Thanks for the advice
    I bought this ATC spindle kit for one of my Avid cnc routers about a year ago, and so far am very pleased with the quality, fit, finish, and performance. I ordered this on the recommendation of another forum member who already had one of the same model purchased from the same Ebay vendor up and running on his cnc router table.
    David

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Combo-ATC-Tool-Change-Spindle-Motor-BT30-3kw-18krpm-NBT30-VFD-4kw/184407738494?hash=item2aef8ec87e:g:X9cAAOSwd1tdstV 0

    atc spindle package.jpg

  9. #9
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    My understanding ceramic bearings were used in part because in a VFD driven motor eddy currents are generated in the rotor and that current passes through a standard steel bearing roller balls and eats away or erodes those surfaces. Pretty well documented. Some makers use a slip ring of sorts or a spring wire touching the rotor shaft to drain off that current instead of ceramic bearings.

    http://www.hpac.com/motors-drives/ar...motor-bearings
    Retired Guy- Central Iowa.HVAC/R , Cloudray Galvo Fiber , -Windows 10

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Buchhauser View Post
    I bought this ATC spindle kit for one of my Avid cnc routers about a year ago, and so far am very pleased with the quality, fit, finish, and performance. I ordered this on the recommendation of another forum member who already had one of the same model purchased from the same Ebay vendor up and running on his cnc router table.
    David

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Combo-ATC-Tool-Change-Spindle-Motor-BT30-3kw-18krpm-NBT30-VFD-4kw/184407738494?hash=item2aef8ec87e:g:X9cAAOSwd1tdstV 0

    atc spindle package.jpg
    Wow, that is about 2500.00 less than CNC Depot! Although, you probably need to be experienced with that kind of thing I would think? CNC depot say there package is pretty much plug and play?? How was it adding that to your Avid machine and getting up and running?

  11. #11
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    Same thing with this one, pretty much "plug&play". It comes with a manual with instructions, plus the vendor was very helpful with any additional information needed. And if you need additional tool holders or collets the price was $20 per tool holder and $5 per collet. These are very high quality tool holders and collets, so I ordered some additional. As a plus, this spindle is water cooled (not fan cooled) so it is much quieter that my other air cooled spindle from Avid. I will post some photos later this evening with some details.
    David

  12. #12
    I was the one that recommended that spindle to David. The seller is very helpful and he will set all the parameters on the VFD for you and then do a test of everything on video before he ships out. I have had mine for quite a while and never had an issue. For an ATC spindle I doubt you can beat the price. The seller still contacts me every several months to see how everything is running. I would recommend it to anyone

  13. #13
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    That's all great info, thanks! Yes, if you guys have pics or videos, please share

  14. #14
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    Here are a few pics. The tool holders are NBT30-ER25, meaning they take the ER25 size collets. I believe the S30 uses ER20, which is a bit smaller collet size.
    David

    20191204_003246_resized.jpg 20200111_014239_resized.jpg

  15. #15
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