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Thread: California to ban internal combustion engine cars by 2035

  1. #136
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    Currently in California a resident can bring a new car into the state only if it meets Califonia smog laws or is 49 state smog and at least 7,500 miles. A non-resident can bring in any car they own outside the state and get it registered. There are exemptions for military, divorce, cars stolen while out of state etc. As I read it the car can not come direct from out of the country.
    Bil lD

  2. #137
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    And again, I find it humorous that almost all of the people discussing this topic don't live in California currently and are highly unlikely to be living here in 2035.
    Yoga class makes me feel like a total stud, mostly because I'm about as flexible as a 2x4.
    "Design"? Possibly. "Intelligent"? Sure doesn't look like it from this angle.
    We used to be hunter gatherers. Now we're shopper borrowers.
    The three most important words in the English language: "Front Towards Enemy".
    The world makes a lot more sense when you remember that Butthead was the smart one.
    You can never be too rich, too thin, or have too much ammo.

  3. #138
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    We're interested in the trend, often set by Californians.

    Socks with sandles just caught on, here.

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Matthews View Post
    Socks with sandles just caught on, here.
    I think that started somewhere well east of here.
    Yoga class makes me feel like a total stud, mostly because I'm about as flexible as a 2x4.
    "Design"? Possibly. "Intelligent"? Sure doesn't look like it from this angle.
    We used to be hunter gatherers. Now we're shopper borrowers.
    The three most important words in the English language: "Front Towards Enemy".
    The world makes a lot more sense when you remember that Butthead was the smart one.
    You can never be too rich, too thin, or have too much ammo.

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee DeRaud View Post
    I think that started somewhere well east of here.
    Coachella? See, trendsetters!

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Matthews View Post
    Coachella? See, trendsetters!
    I was thinking "Milwaukee": only people I've ever seen do that are tourists.
    Yoga class makes me feel like a total stud, mostly because I'm about as flexible as a 2x4.
    "Design"? Possibly. "Intelligent"? Sure doesn't look like it from this angle.
    We used to be hunter gatherers. Now we're shopper borrowers.
    The three most important words in the English language: "Front Towards Enemy".
    The world makes a lot more sense when you remember that Butthead was the smart one.
    You can never be too rich, too thin, or have too much ammo.

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee DeRaud View Post
    And again, I find it humorous that almost all of the people discussing this topic don't live in California currently and are highly unlikely to be living here in 2035.
    This will quite possibly spread to other CARB states. Minnesota is looking to become a CARB state. A lot of car pollution standards started in California and spread across the 50 states.

    I don't think pollution standards for internal combustion cars are a bad thing. I also don't believe that emissions standards have really decreased MPG for gasoline engines. And, yes, I lived in California during the really bad smog days in the late 1970s. We lived a block from the elementary school that my brothers and I attended and sometimes couldn't see the school building from the edge of the school property on a bad smog day.

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee DeRaud View Post
    I was thinking "Milwaukee": only people I've ever seen do that are tourists.
    Only if your Moms didnae catch you going out...gettyimages-672080228-612x612.jpg
    Last edited by Jim Matthews; 10-15-2020 at 6:14 AM.

  9. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by glenn bradley View Post
    I think we all feel we should have been off fossil fuels for convenience vehicles years ago. I probably shouldn't be behind the wheel by 2035 so, more power to 'em
    I don’t feel like that.

  10. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Henderson View Post
    Unless they put a big tax on petroleum products, I expect petroleum products will be cheap. The reason is that there's very large reserves of oil. As we convert to green energy, sales of petroleum products will decrease (at least for transportation). Supply and demand says that petroleum products will cost less if demand goes down.

    That's one of my concerns. One advantage of an electric vehicle is the lower cost of "fuel". As more people purchase electric vehicles, the price of gas could go down, prompting more people to choose a gas vehicle instead of an electric vehicle.

    If that's true, the executive order in California makes even more sense.

    Mike

    [An alternative is to treat gasoline like cigarettes - put a big tax on it and keep increasing the tax to encourage people to go electric.]
    Or you could just wait for electric technology to mature. When it’s a better deal financially, it will go mainstream.

  11. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Art Mann View Post
    The problem I have with electric cars is not range. More charging stations are showing up every day. The problem I have is refueling time. A fill up takes an hour or more even using the Tesla "Super charger" stations. Off brand charging stations charge at the rate of 5 or 10 miles of range per hour of charge. Building more charge stations won't fix that problem. I am waiting for another technological breakthrough to solve the slow charge problem.

    On another subject, what do you suppose the price of electricity is going to do when the overwhelming majority of drivers depend on it? My prediction is that it will cost the same per mile as gasoline does today. Unfortunately, that dramatic increase in price will also apply to electricity for your home. Electricity prices in California are already 3 times what they are where I live.
    I agree. I can drive my pickup truck 500 miles. After a 10 minute gas station stop, I can go another 500. Can’t do that with electric. Yet.

  12. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Zeller View Post
    Back in 2016 (I think) the air force base in LA switched to all EVs and started the concept of using the battery in the EV to send power to the grid. So the technology is there. Then EV companies jumped on it to promote sales. Just think. If the power goes out you can use the battery in your car to power your house. Sounds great until you think about it. What's to stop your charging station from doing the same thing and sending the power back into the grid? Look up V2G technology. The next step will be the government not giving you an option about whether or not you want to sell your power back to the grid.

    Until this year I would of said it's very unlikely but between the virus and Newsom's order I would expect it'll happen. I'm not usually this type of person but all the pieces are in place. Tesla cars get over the air updates so it's not hard to have a system that tells the government how much charge your car has. It's coming for highway taxes. As gas sales drop road repair money will need to come from somewhere. Either it'll be a flat tax or it'll be the government tracking your mileage (which most states do when you get your car's yearly inspection). The next step is for your car to just upload the mileage and GPS location (including where you drove). That could mean warnings for people who do not plug your car into the grid and eventually fines. The part of me resists this because it makes me feel less free. But a part of me sees it as the future.
    Wouldn’t you lose efficiency charging a battery and discharging the battery to power the grid?

  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Helmich View Post
    I agree. I can drive my pickup truck 500 miles. After a 10 minute gas station stop, I can go another 500. Can’t do that with electric. Yet.
    Yes but realistically how often do you do that? 500 miles has gotta be 7 or 8 hours of driving. Even if you do it with any regularity what % of drivers also do? To fight climate change we don't need everyone to go electric full time.

  14. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Zeller View Post
    Back in 2016 (I think) the air force base in LA switched to all EVs and started the concept of using the battery in the EV to send power to the grid. So the technology is there. Then EV companies jumped on it to promote sales. Just think. If the power goes out you can use the battery in your car to power your house. Sounds great until you think about it. What's to stop your charging station from doing the same thing and sending the power back into the grid? Look up V2G technology. The next step will be the government not giving you an option about whether or not you want to sell your power back to the grid.

    Until this year I would of said it's very unlikely but between the virus and Newsom's order I would expect it'll happen. I'm not usually this type of person but all the pieces are in place. Tesla cars get over the air updates so it's not hard to have a system that tells the government how much charge your car has. It's coming for highway taxes. As gas sales drop road repair money will need to come from somewhere. Either it'll be a flat tax or it'll be the government tracking your mileage (which most states do when you get your car's yearly inspection). The next step is for your car to just upload the mileage and GPS location (including where you drove). That could mean warnings for people who do not plug your car into the grid and eventually fines. The part of me resists this because it makes me feel less free. But a part of me sees it as the future.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Matthews View Post
    If your daily commute is less than the capacity of the battery, charging time isn't really a concern.

    Most of us Americans travel 16 miles each way to work.
    The speed at which we travel (even on major highways) is often well below posted limits during peak rush hours. This implies idling in stop and go traffic.

    The two overlooked, superior characteristics of EVs in this application are power consumption at idle (near zero) and cleaner air on the route.

    There's some speculative talk about passenger vehicles with near 600 mile range on a single charge within this decade. The truth is that few of us drive that far on a regular basis.

    EVs today are built to handle what people really do with their cars - mostly within 100 miles of their homes.


    https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27288/...miles-of-range

    My current lease has a claimed 239 mile range that I've bested in our first three weeks - 310 miles of mixed highway and local road driving before the "charge needed" alert chimed.

    This is a second generation EV, at $250 a month that gets this range TODAY.

    I can't imagine what it will buy in 2030.
    The EV cars are getting better and better. They will surely overtake internal combustion cars at some point. But if we burn natural gas or coal to power the charging stations, how much have we gained? Solar and wind doesn’t work all the time.

  15. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Zeller View Post
    Back in 2016 (I think) the air force base in LA switched to all EVs and started the concept of using the battery in the EV to send power to the grid. So the technology is there. Then EV companies jumped on it to promote sales. Just think. If the power goes out you can use the battery in your car to power your house. Sounds great until you think about it. What's to stop your charging station from doing the same thing and sending the power back into the grid? Look up V2G technology. The next step will be the government not giving you an option about whether or not you want to sell your power back to the grid.

    Until this year I would of said it's very unlikely but between the virus and Newsom's order I would expect it'll happen. I'm not usually this type of person but all the pieces are in place. Tesla cars get over the air updates so it's not hard to have a system that tells the government how much charge your car has. It's coming for highway taxes. As gas sales drop road repair money will need to come from somewhere. Either it'll be a flat tax or it'll be the government tracking your mileage (which most states do when you get your car's yearly inspection). The next step is for your car to just upload the mileage and GPS location (including where you drove). That could mean warnings for people who do not plug your car into the grid and eventually fines. The part of me resists this because it makes me feel less free. But a part of me sees it as the future.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Garson View Post
    Yes but realistically how often do you do that? 500 miles has gotta be 7 or 8 hours of driving. Even if you do it with any regularity what % of drivers also do? To fight climate change we don't need everyone to go electric full time.
    360 mi to drive home to see family. And run around when I get there. More than once a month before 2020. Not many electrics can do that yet. But, sure, back and forth to work and running errands an electric would work just fine. Don’t get me wrong. I’ll be on the electric bandwagon when it’s ready. We just have to let it happen. It will happen. And I’m a mechanic. I think internal combustion engines are awesome. But I’ll jump ship when the electric cars are cheaper to operate.

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