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Thread: California to ban internal combustion engine cars by 2035

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Helmich View Post
    The EV cars are getting better and better. They will surely overtake internal combustion cars at some point. But if we burn natural gas or coal to power the charging stations, how much have we gained? Solar and wind doesn’t work all the time.
    In Canada we already produce over 80% of our electricity from non GHG sources and export about 8% of our electricity.

  2. #152
    Ben, like me you have thought this through with clarity. Let's hope it catches on. There are enough fossils in the
    Smithsonian. "Smoke 'em if you gottem' "

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Helmich View Post
    360 mi to drive home to see family. And run around when I get there. More than once a month before 2020. Not many electrics can do that yet.
    2019 KIA Niro EV does this with a 30 minute recharge enroute.



    https://www.greencarreports.com/news...-electric-cars

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.san...ic%3f_amp=true
    Last edited by Lee Schierer; 10-18-2020 at 5:41 PM.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Fulks View Post
    There are enough fossils in the..
    comment section
    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Fulks View Post
    "Smoke 'em if you gottem' "
    Fixed that forya.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Helmich View Post
    Or you could just wait for electric technology to mature. When it’s a better deal financially, it will go mainstream.
    You do realize that's part of the point of making this effective in fifteen years rather than now, right?
    Yoga class makes me feel like a total stud, mostly because I'm about as flexible as a 2x4.
    "Design"? Possibly. "Intelligent"? Sure doesn't look like it from this angle.
    We used to be hunter gatherers. Now we're shopper borrowers.
    The three most important words in the English language: "Front Towards Enemy".
    The world makes a lot more sense when you remember that Butthead was the smart one.
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  6. #156
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    Never been but I often pass the sign "this way to the slot car track". I understand many of the go cart tracks have switched to electric, espically the indoor ones. I think bumper cars were always electric.
    Bil lD

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Matthews View Post
    2019 KIA Niro EV does this with a 30 minute recharge enroute.
    That trip should be doable in 5 to 6 hours depending on what type of highways exist between the two points. It is a trip that many drivers could easily do straight through with a stop for fuel. I personally don't think an extra 20 minutes to refuel is a big deal, but I am sure it is a big deal to some drivers.

    I would like to get an electric vehicle, but nobody makes a full electric mini-van yet and I wouldn't buy one if it was over about $30,000. (I realize a lot of gasoline mini-vans are over $30,000, but I only paid $20,000 for my 2016 Grand Caravan SE.) I have solar, but solar doesn't really help much since my vehicle isn't at home much of the time the sun is shining. A lot will change by 2030 and a reasonable electrical vehicle will probably be an option by then. I have a motorhome too. There is an electric version coming out, but it has a whole 200 mile range with four hours to charge! I get at least 800 miles per tank in my motorhome because the tank is huge.
    Last edited by Lee Schierer; 10-18-2020 at 5:41 PM.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Elfert View Post
    I would like to get an electric vehicle, but nobody makes a full electric mini-van yet and I wouldn't buy one if it was over about $30,000.
    Me, neither. I only got into my EV because Kia offered an incentive to bring the price near $25,000.
    Cars over $30,000 make my Clan MacFrugal kilt itch.


    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Elfert View Post
    I have solar, but solar doesn't really help much since my vehicle isn't at home much of the time the sun is shining.
    Grid connected PV panels typically have "net metering" where the current supplied into the grid is credited against your consumption, whenever it's used.

    Most EVs have a charge timer, to take advantage of cheaper electric rates in the early morning.

    The local valuation of roof generated power isn't enough for me to install panels. Even at today's prices, it's more than 15 years to break even.

  9. #159
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    I wonder how electrical charging costs will look in the future. Will it be like gas and they charge a lot more in the mountains with no competition and also high in the big city.
    Bil lD

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Matthews View Post
    Grid connected PV panels typically have "net metering" where the current supplied into the grid is credited against your consumption, whenever it's used.

    Most EVs have a charge timer, to take advantage of cheaper electric rates in the early morning.
    I have net metering with my solar, but am I really charging with solar then? Net metering is going away in a lot of areas. In Hawaii solar usage is so high due to the high electric rates that you are not allowed to generate more electric than your current usage. The grid in many neighborhoods was getting overloaded by large amounts of power being generated by solar.

    To get low rates for off peak usage we have to have a separate meter for the off peak usage. We have smart meters so not sure why they can't track usage by the hour.

  11. #161
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    My utility installed smart meters and they are very dumb. Ours just shows a odometer of total usage since installed like any older meter. There is not any indication of current useage. I think the utility thinks we are not smart enough to figure out any more then that.
    My mothers was much smarter it shows total usage, then cycles between volts, amps and something else maybe frequency or load factor?
    As a kid we used to go watch the meter disk spin fast when dad welded.
    Bil lD
    Bil lD

  12. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Dufour View Post
    My utility installed smart meters and they are very dumb. Ours just shows a odometer of total usage since installed like any older meter. There is not any indication of current useage. I think the utility thinks we are not smart enough to figure out any more then that.
    My mothers was much smarter it shows total usage, then cycles between volts, amps and something else maybe frequency or load factor?
    As a kid we used to go watch the meter disk spin fast when dad welded.

    Bil lD
    Many "smart" meters are read through a wireless connection. The meter reports quite a bit of information about usage to the company and they present this data to you on their web site. I never look at my smart meter itself - I go to the website and look at when I'm using my electricity.

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  13. #163
    Every digital power meter I've seen in the past few years has a 'tattletale' flashing light. Small meters you can buy for your own use have a red flashing LED. Home power meters like mine have a flashing infrared light. If you have an infrared security camera or any other camera, you can see if your power meter is so equipped...

    I have an OLD set of Sony security camera's, I just shot a quick 7- second video of the back yard camera on screen-
    lower-middle far left of the screen you'll see the infrared light on top of the meter flash-



    I don't know the exact count-rate of the flash of this power meter but from what I've read most meters flash 1000x per kW. (I bought a power meter to use at the boat harbor years ago, and it flashed at the rate of 800 flashes per kilowatt.) It's past at midnight on Sunday I'm still working, the basement and garage lights are all ablaze, and I have 3 machines running. Hard to time my flashes with this clip but it looked like about 12 flashes per 10 seconds, so 72 flashes per minute--1000/72 means I'm burning a kW every 13.9 minutes... at 8c per kW... 43,800 minutes in a month, /13.9 = 3151.07 kW, x .08 per = $252.08 per month at this rate. My equal pay is about $420, so I'm assuming the math is close - I would need to count flashes for a full minute to be more accurate of course...

    Anyway, get out your night vision and check your meter!

    As to watching the old meter spin, I've counted over 5 flashes per second more than once, when the machines are running, the hot tub is heating water, the wife is drying clothes, it's scary!
    Last edited by Kev Williams; 10-19-2020 at 2:18 AM.
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  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Elfert View Post
    I have net metering with my solar, but am I really charging with solar then?
    You're using the grid as storage for your excess output, effectively lowering the baseline "burn".
    This helps reduce usage of "peaker" plants that are fired on demand. Solar output tends to be highest when Air Conditioners are running through warm days.

    https://www.ge.com/power/transform/a...-peaker-plants


    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Elfert View Post
    Net metering is going away in a lot of areas.
    Power companies have seen a drop in sales (naturally) while PV "suppliers" use their cabling.
    The complaint is that net metering effectively subsidizes those that can afford PV installations.

    It's really a question of which power source taxpayers want to subsidize.

    https://www.ewg.org/energy/22777/fed...ting-our-money

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Elfert View Post
    In Hawaii solar usage is so high due to the high electric rates that you are not allowed to generate more electric than your current usage. The grid in many neighborhoods was getting overloaded by large amounts of power being generated by solar.
    "When a study showed that with upgrades the system could handle more solar than the company assumed, the Hawaiian Public Utility Commission (PUC) ordered the utility to start approving more installations, or prove why it couldn’t. In compliance, Hawaiian Electric upgraded circuits and meters to better regulate flow of electricity, in an effort to find balance between energy produced and energy used."

    In brief : the Hawaii power regulators called Shenanigans and compromised.
    There's definitely a cap, but homeowners are migrating to home power storage (batteries) to keep their PVs and ditch a utility that charges more, for less.

    Since Hawaii imports their fuel, its a sensible choice- import batteries instead and "decouple" from a monopoly.

    http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/Artic...ric-Rates.aspx

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Elfert View Post
    To get low rates for off peak usage we have to have a separate meter for the off peak usage. We have smart meters so not sure why they can't track usage by the hour.
    Your utility probably publish TOU rates.

    https://blog.aurorasolar.com/how-tim...se-rates-work/

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Matthews View Post
    Your utility probably publish TOU rates.

    https://blog.aurorasolar.com/how-tim...se-rates-work/
    There is an optional TOU plan, but you would be crazy to use it. They charge 45 cents per KWh between 4 pm and 8 pm when most houses use most of their power, especially with A/C in the summer. You would have to use a ton of power at night to offset the high day rates.

    I see they added a specific rate plan for electric vehicle charging. It requires a separate meter for the electric car charging circuit(s). Power is only available from 11 pm to 7 am and is charged at 4.5 cents per KWh.

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