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Thread: California to ban internal combustion engine cars by 2035

  1. #1
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    California to ban internal combustion engine cars by 2035

    Our Governor just signed a bill to outlaw the sale of new internal combustion engined cars and trucks? by 2035. unclear if it includes trucks or not. It does include gas and diesel. I assume propane and CNG as well. I wonder how forest fire trucks will last on battery power for days in the field away from power lines much less chargers. I beleive rolls royce and Tslea cars weigh so much that they are considered trucks by the IRS for busniess tax deduction purposes.
    I keep waiting for GE to announce electric powered airplane engines.
    Bil lD.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Dufour View Post
    I keep waiting for GE to announce electric powered airplane engines.
    Bil lD.
    Actually magniX already has.
    https://www.harbourair.com/harbour-a...tric-airplane/
    https://www.magnix.aero/
    Last edited by Doug Garson; 09-25-2020 at 2:03 PM. Reason: Added magnix link

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Dufour View Post
    Our Governor just signed a bill to outlaw the sale of new internal combustion engined cars and trucks? by 2035. unclear if it includes trucks or not. It does include gas and diesel. I assume propane and CNG as well. I wonder how forest fire trucks will last on battery power for days in the field away from power lines much less chargers. I believe rolls royce and Telsa cars weigh so much that they are considered trucks by the IRS for business tax deduction purposes.
    I keep waiting for GE to announce electric powered airplane engines.
    Bil lD.
    If I recall, the order only applies to cars and light trucks. There's no intent to restrict larger trucks to electric power, or to restrict special vehicles, such as forest fire trucks. It also only applies to new vehicles and does not restrict the sale of older petroleum powered vehicles (used vehicles). I assume that if other states don't do the same restrictions, you will still be able to purchase a petroleum powered vehicle in those states. If someone moves to California and owns one of those vehicles, I assume they will be able to bring the vehicle into California. However, if you live in California you won't be able to purchase a petroleum powered vehicle in another state and bring it into California.

    The order is fairly reasonable as far as what it covers. And it doesn't go into effect until 2035. And it's just an executive order, not a law passed by the legislature. So a future governor can cancel or modify the order. The legislature could even pass a law that overturns it.

    As Harry Truman said, "When you see 10 troubles coming towards you, don't panic. Nine of them will run off the road before they get to you."

    Mike

    [Overall, I think it's a great idea and one that is really needed.]
    Last edited by Mike Henderson; 09-25-2020 at 2:13 PM.
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

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    I'm not sure why this is a surprise....the EU has already moved in that direction and given the time frame, it shouldn't be a major issue technology wise. I'm sure there will be provisions for specialty vehicles that might not be best served by EV, too.

    There is already meaningful work in progress relative to passenger planes that are EV or use alternative power methods, too. Airbus is one of the companies doing work on this kind of thing.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

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    Sort of related, I watched some of the Le Mans coverage and one thing that caught my attention is the announcement of new car classes. There is an interim spec, which will reduce cost of the top prototypes (from obscene, to merely ridiculous ) and allow greater compatibility between sanctioning bodies. More interesting was the promise of a class of hydrogen cars and supporting efforts. They had a hydrogen prototype that ran respectable hot laps, but was described as already obsolete as design was progressing so quickly. They also mentioned a demo series that would be self contained. It sounded like the infrastructure was already in development, but press release.... The plan is to have container based solar powered hydrogen stations to fuel the hydrogen cars and to stage (demo?) races in places with only roads & water.

    Coming back to the California situation, they said there are already pilot programs for this hydrogen technology in progress here. (And in UK, Europe, & parts of Asia.) One of the announcers had driven a Hyundai prototype in the UK. He said it drove well, just like a battery electric, but you just popped into the filling station where a fill was quick, very like gasoline. So with a 15 year deadline, several potential technologies, and pressing environmental concerns, this doesn't really seem an unreasonable goal.

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    I think we all feel we should have been off fossil fuels for convenience vehicles years ago. I probably shouldn't be behind the wheel by 2035 so, more power to 'em
    "The Danish government believes that if we train 5,000 designers, and produce
    one Hans Wegner, the money is very well spent." - Ole Gjerlov-Knudsen

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Bassett View Post
    Sort of related, I watched some of the Le Mans coverage and one thing that caught my attention is the announcement of new car classes. There is an interim spec, which will reduce cost of the top prototypes (from obscene, to merely ridiculous ) and allow greater compatibility between sanctioning bodies. More interesting was the promise of a class of hydrogen cars and supporting efforts. They had a hydrogen prototype that ran respectable hot laps, but was described as already obsolete as design was progressing so quickly. They also mentioned a demo series that would be self contained. It sounded like the infrastructure was already in development, but press release.... The plan is to have container based solar powered hydrogen stations to fuel the hydrogen cars and to stage (demo?) races in places with only roads & water.
    I was thinking a few months ago that if there was an electric car racing series, innovation of ev tech would sky rocket.
    Brian

    "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger or more complicated...it takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." - E.F. Schumacher

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Tymchak View Post
    I was thinking a few months ago that if there was an electric car racing series, innovation of ev tech would sky rocket.
    F1 & LMP1's are hybrids on steroids right now. There's Formula-E (I think it's called, but I haven't tried to follow it), an all electric series that runs right now. Announcers have said things about it catching on and siphoning drivers from the F1 talent pool, so it's got some prestige and funding. Problem is range & power are pretty limited by current battery technology. A battery break through, or alternative (e.g. hydrogen fuel-cells), is need before its a practical for many uses.

    What I haven't seen / heard about is US manufacturers participating in the racing series, which as you say drive (a lot of) the innovation. More technology we seem to be conceding to the rest of the world.

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    In 15 years you won’t be able to afford fossil fuels anyway.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcolm Schweizer View Post
    In 15 years you won’t be able to afford fossil fuels anyway.
    Unless they put a big tax on petroleum products, I expect petroleum products will be cheap. The reason is that there's very large reserves of oil. As we convert to green energy, sales of petroleum products will decrease (at least for transportation). Supply and demand says that petroleum products will cost less if demand goes down.

    That's one of my concerns. One advantage of an electric vehicle is the lower cost of "fuel". As more people purchase electric vehicles, the price of gas could go down, prompting more people to choose a gas vehicle instead of an electric vehicle.

    If that's true, the executive order in California makes even more sense.

    Mike

    [An alternative is to treat gasoline like cigarettes - put a big tax on it and keep increasing the tax to encourage people to go electric.]
    Last edited by Mike Henderson; 09-25-2020 at 5:03 PM.
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  11. #11
    It's the inverse here in TX. Due to crony-ism, Teslas cannot be sold inside the state (vehicles must be sold through a dealership, not directly) but Tesla just inked a deal to put a 1.1 billion dollar factory here in Austin. I don't know how the sales model will work but Teslas have been everywhere here in town for some time. Folks seem to want to make the jump.

    Erik
    Felder USA Territory Representative: Central & South Texas

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    The biggest pushback I hear on electric vehicles is probably the same argument that was used when gasoline powered cars replaced horse and buggy. How can I drive long distances there aren't enough charging stations (gas stations back then). With each generation of electric cars having longer ranges and more and more charging stations being built (including home charging stations), I don't see that being a problem for California in 15 years.

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    Is this also going to affect air traffic? Jet planes burn an awful amount of fuel.
    SWE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Garson View Post
    The biggest pushback I hear on electric vehicles is probably the same argument that was used when gasoline powered cars replaced horse and buggy. How can I drive long distances there aren't enough charging stations (gas stations back then). . .
    Doug, yes that's what I hear. I think the answer to that is to think outside the limits of our expectations. Maybe we dont need to drive 50 miles away to go shopping. I figure 95% of my driving is less than 50 miles at a time. For that once a year trip driving further on vacation or to another city, I can rent a long-distance car. Heck I know people who do that now anyway to save wear on the family gas-powered vehicle. Electrics are ideal for commuting around the city. Rural life is a different story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Eure View Post
    Is this also going to affect air traffic? Jet planes burn an awful amount of fuel.
    That's being worked on, e.g:

    The largest electric plane yet completed its first flight but it's the batteries that matter

    Also hydrogen:

    Airbus announces concept designs for zero-emission, hydrogen-powered airplanes

    though those are combustion, instead of fuel-cell (with electric motors.)

    That's just two examples from the first several pages of search results. (What I didn't notice was any mention of Boeing, so again major US company appears lagging in the search for green tech.)

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