Tell me about Natural Gas and new furnace

[Jim Becker]

I think we've spent maybe $300 for maintenance costs on the high efficiency system and that was on the AC side, not the heating side...refrigerant leak on the older outside unit that we did not replace when the new inside unit I referred to went in.

I agree with another poster that getting multiple quotes is a good idea. Also note that the same units are often sold under multiple names; the "well known" brand name having a higher cost than the identical unit under the actual manufacturer name, etc. The difference is sometimes a couple grand! Just like the home appliance industry only had a few manufacturers, so is the same with the HVAC industry at this point.

[Mike Soaper]

Jim makes a good point about how things are marketed.

You might want to take a look at this video regarding ac/heatpump brands and mfgrs, but i suspect it also applies to furmaces.

edit: I don't necessarily agree on his energy vs reliability stance

Warning, lots of ads, things may have changed since this video was made

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy46yTbkNhI

[Ronald Blue]

On the subject of the brands and who makes what this seems to be a credible link that gives food for thought.

furnaceprices.ca/posts/who-makes-every-brand-of-furnace-and-air-conditioner/

[Brian Elfert]

Please tell me that remark about the UNVENTED natural gas heater is a typo. Being a fireman for a major fire dept. for over 30 years, I removed far too many bodies from situations like this.

Unvented gas heaters can be very dangerous. One of my friends brought an unvented propane heater into an RV my friends and I were sleeping in. A good chance we would have been dead had I not installed a CO detector.

[Curt Harms]

I think we've spent maybe $300 for maintenance costs on the high efficiency system and that was on the AC side, not the heating side...refrigerant leak on the older outside unit that we did not replace when the new inside unit I referred to went in.

I agree with another poster that getting multiple quotes is a good idea. Also note that the same units are often sold under multiple names; the "well known" brand name having a higher cost than the identical unit under the actual manufacturer name, etc. The difference is sometimes a couple grand! Just like the home appliance industry only had a few manufacturers, so is the same with the HVAC industry at this point.

Hey! Those ads cost money ya know!

[Jerome Stanek]

Unvented gas heaters can be very dangerous. One of my friends brought an unvented propane heater into an RV my friends and I were sleeping in. A good chance we would have been dead had I not installed a CO detector.

Was that heater rated for indoor house use or was it a garage heater

[Rob Luter]

I grew up with an oil fired furnace but we did most of our heating with a fireplace insert. Getting the tank filled was a PITA. I've has gas forced air ever since and wouldn't choose anything else. It's efficient and economical. In my last home I had an old Williamson 5 in 1 furnace that was really inefficient. I replace it with a Trane and saw the difference in the energy bills immediately. I'm about to replace a 1991 vintage furnace (gas) in my current house with a high efficiency version and am looking forward to lower bills.

[Brian Elfert]

Was that heater rated for indoor house use or was it a garage heater

I am pretty sure it was not rated for indoor house use.

[Alex Zeller]

My previous house was converted over from oil to NG just before I sold it. The gas company was converting the oil furnaces to NG for free as well as doing the install. If the old furnace didn't pass a safety inspection they wouldn't do it. They just had a team that was going from one house to the next. Since my furnace was a good 40 years old I didn't bother with the conversion and being spring I didn't have to rush to get a new furnace. They just plumbed the black pipe to the furnace and left it with a shut off and a plug. Since it was forced air the new furnace needed to have duct work done. There's no way I would convert a 40 year old furnace. Besides NG will eat the insides out of an old oil furnace in no time flat (as my neighbors found out). The condensation formed by burning NG is acidic. Modern furnaces designed for NG are built to handle it.

[Tom Bender]

The piping inside the house
Our house was fed with a 1" black iron pipe from the meter to the first branch, which feeds the furnace. Then it was dropped down to 3/4" That split into two 1/2" lines, one for the water heater and one for the stove. All that worked fine. When I added a generator it called for a 1" feed, but it dropped to 1/2" inside the generator case so 1" was going to be a bit of overkill. I extended the original 1" to the generator and all is well. In replacing most of my gas piping I found some sloppy work so I am confident that it is now good.

About those high efficiency furnaces
They do save energy and if your house uses a lot of heat worth the much higher initial cost. Due to condensation they typically last only about half as long as traditional furnaces. My house is very frugal and the heat bill is about $500 / year so saving 10% is going to pay for a new furnace in about a thousand years.

When you lose electricity
It's cold and unpleasant but with a gas furnace you can take a hot shower. And even in summer a warm shower is nice.

[Jim Becker]

T\
When you lose electricity
It's cold and unpleasant but with a gas furnace you can take a hot shower. And even in summer a warm shower is nice.

Only if there's electricity to run the electronics for the furnace and your water heater is also gas... This is just one of the many reasons we have a whole house generator here. We have water, septic, heat (gas, but electric blower), hot water (gas tankless, but electronics), cooking (gas but requires electric to ignite), lights, communications, etc.

[Tom Bender]

oops i misspoke, if you have a gas water heater you can have a hot shower and wash dishes in hot water, if you have water.

[Jim Becker]

oops i misspoke, if you have a gas water heater you can have a hot shower and wash dishes in hot water, if you have water.

Pretty much all of the modern gear requires electricity to ignite. There are no pilots and many units do not permit manually lighting with a flame because of the need for temperature management...which is electronic.

[Malcolm McLeod]

I think Tom is emphasizing benefits of a traditional 'storage tank' water heater (vs tankless/continuous). Regardless of the heating source, with a storage tank you have 40, 50, 80(?) gallons of hot water. The 'hot' might not last more than 8-10hrs, but February showers are a bit more comfortable while it does.

Also, some older homes may still have water heaters with a standing pilot, so as long as you have water pressure, you can have hot water. Same with the old in-floor gas heaters, they work off natural convection, so you can stay toasty.

[Ron Selzer]

Had a replacement hot water tank that needed electricity to run. Supposed to save energy, after replacing the power vent damper twice, each time 4-6 days cold showers. Then it leaked on the floor, I searched hard and found one that doesn't need electric, also went to a 50 gallon tank. Third shower in the morning was cold half way thru with the other tank.
Ron