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Thread: Replacing a SCMS

  1. #1
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    Replacing a SCMS

    I'll be replacing an old Bosch 10" SCMS. The brake is shot. Accuracy of cut is getting fiddly. And it's a dust storm, despite having a Rousseau 5000 dust hood connected to the dust collector. Going to 12" would be nice, though not necessary. An accurate laser would be nice, too. This will be used strictly in the shop for furniture, cabinetry, boat parts and fine woodworking.

    I've eliminated the Kapex. Dewalt has some good reviews by contractors but seems more of a jobsite saw. The new Bosch are supposed to have great dust collection but no laser. But the Makita LS1219L really has my interest.

    Any comments?
    Thanks
    “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness..." - Mark Twain

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  2. #2
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    I don't think there is any such thing as an accurate laser, not for furniture quality work anyway. The edge of the line is just too fuzzy. I've heard that the shadow line indicators are better, but I've never used one.

    For a given level of saw, a non-slider will always be more accurate than a slider, so if a 12" non-slider will give the capacity you need, that would be better and cheaper.

  3. #3
    I recently bought the 12" Delta Cruzer, 2nd generation with the shadow line. I haven't used it for any fine detail work, but it has met all my expectations, and it was square out of the box for me. I do like the glide mechanism, and it allows me to not need nearly as much depth for the saw. I can't give any long term experience, or furniture building with it, but I do expect it to last, though I may try a new blade on it in the future (nothing is wrong with the current one, but I can rarely leave well enough alone, and I like trying new tools!).

  4. #4
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    Julie,

    A couple years ago I bought the 12" slider Dewalt with the laser that illuminates both sides of the blade simultaneously to replace a 10" Delta slider that I was never happy with it's repeatability. The Dewalt has been rock solid! I can change angles and go back to "0" and it's dead on. Periodically I check it for accuracy but with the old Delta, I had to reset it to "0" every time. Initially I wanted a Hitachi but the one I saw locally had too much slop in the slider mechanism for me.

    If you can, see them in person and try the mechanisms for yourself.

    Good luck.
    Last edited by Ken Fitzgerald; 09-24-2020 at 2:05 PM.
    Ken

  5. #5
    I have the LS1019 it' pretty good for a chop saw once I adjusted the rails to be coplaner, I actually forgot there was a laser on it as they are useless for anything but construction work which is all I use it for anyways. The stock blade and other tooth configs is pretty good I tested everything but a Forrest and it was the best. also fwiw, and scms is not a furniture level cutting machine but will be adequate for most not working to the maximum level of perfection get the smallest blade version for the best results.





    Quote Originally Posted by Julie Moriarty View Post
    I'll be replacing an old Bosch 10" SCMS. The brake is shot. Accuracy of cut is getting fiddly. And it's a dust storm, despite having a Rousseau 5000 dust hood connected to the dust collector. Going to 12" would be nice, though not necessary. An accurate laser would be nice, too. This will be used strictly in the shop for furniture, cabinetry, boat parts and fine woodworking.

    I've eliminated the Kapex. Dewalt has some good reviews by contractors but seems more of a jobsite saw. The new Bosch are supposed to have great dust collection but no laser. But the Makita LS1219L really has my interest.

    Any comments?
    Thanks

  6. #6
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    I have the Dewalt 780 and have been very happy with it.

    If I'm cutting contractor grade materials, I use the desalt blade.

    For woodworking type stuff, I use a Forrest WoodWorker Ii blade.

    I did build a foldaway dust hood, which only works for 90 degree cuts, but it gets 99% of the dust from the cut.

    I also don't have a dedicated space for it, so i made an extension fence, that I can use on a flat surface with the saw.

    Here you can see both in use.

  7. #7
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    My $0.02 is there is pretty much no consumer/construction grade SCMS that will ever perform to anyones hopes with regards to dust pickup. Its just a nightmare you have to deal with. After that, for course work a laser may be nice but once your accustomed to your saw the laser will be more of a nuisance than a benefit.

    Bosch glide was always high on my list and have used one many times (a friends) and its a more than capable saw but I have no direct hard core use with the saw.

    All the 12" saws feel underpowered to me which is often times due to softs start but also because the manufacturer is trying for a balance of capacity and portability.

    I personally feel that you have to understand that these saws are not precision machines and even the good ones wont be great for long or across a wide range (which youve found out).

    I would be buying based on envelope/operating size, and everything else is something you will work around.
    Sometimes I just want to look at pretty pictures,... Thats when I go to the Turners Forum

  8. #8
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    Julie, I have the 1019, non laser saw. It's a good machine, however I prefer the old 1013 because of the larger table and more power. Agree with the previous remarks about the laser not really being useful. I do have a couple Dewalts with the shadow line, and it is far more accurate. Dust collection is best on the Dewalt FlexVolt 12" slider. It's actually pretty good. Expensive saw, but a good one. I still do prefer the Makita over the Dewalts though.

    I do disagree with Mark a little on the long term accuracy. Some of them are better than others. My old 1013 is 20 something years old and has been used 2 to 5 days a week for it's entire life. It's still shockingly accurate. Makes our other saws look bad really. I do not let many other people use it though, so it does get babied a little but it does still go to job sites periodically. I know of an old Hitachi that is similar.

  9. #9
    I use a Hitachi 12 inch non-slider and my track saw for anything beyond it's capacity. All the sliders seem to have significant play in their mechanism to me. I suspect that people get accurate cuts due to good technique but I am also pretty sure if you lean on them a bit you can cause an inaccurate cut. Hard to do that with a non slider. I worry that variation in wood density might have an effect similar to pushing the saw a bit sideways. My track saw will only cut up to 2 inches deep and my CMS crosscut to about 8 inches but that nearly always works.

  10. #10
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    Thanks for all the helpful replies. I kinda knew what I was hoping for wasn't out there but I had to ask.

    I saw one video from a millwork guy who replaced a 10" Makita with their new 12" and he was pretty impressed. The only Makita tool I own is a power planer I bought over 30 years ago. But I became a Dewalt fan, mostly because that's what I always saw on the job.

    The laser, however, grabbed my attention as my arms are too short to read the newspaper anymore. The millwork guy showed lining up and cutting by the laser and it was balls on accurate, as Mona Lisa Vito would say.

    Thanks again for all the help. I hope I can make up my mind before I again forget that blade brake isn't working anymore.
    “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness..." - Mark Twain

    Diapers and Politicians need to be changed often... Usually for the same reason.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dwight View Post
    I worry that variation in wood density might have an effect similar to pushing the saw a bit sideways.
    If that happens, you have a bad blade.

  12. #12
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    I have the Dewalt 779 and put an LED shadow line kit on it. I don’t know if they are still available but I got the saw for $325 because they were replacing it with the 780. The LED kit was about $50 and took about an hour to install. It works great for me. The only compliant I have is the saw jumps a little when you hit the trigger. That takes some time to get comfortable with.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Rozmiarek View Post
    I do disagree with Mark a little on the long term accuracy. Some of them are better than others.
    My point was kinda more so speaking to someone intermittently using a saw. I think you know that with about 4 cuts on virtually any saw you or I could probably influence the saw from the handle to fudge a stain grade wide miter by perhaps a half degree or or more or even steer a bit of undercut when needed without ever adjusting the miter or bevel settings. That was my point about once you get accustomed to your saw, while some may have more nuisance nuance than others, they can be used to your advantage if you have that aptitude. No different than anyone, but having cut so much over the years I or anyone could probably get pretty clean results out of a saw that behaved like a wet noodle once you got your head around it.

    But if your looking for a dead perfect, rigidity, power, dust pickup, accuracy, on down the line, out of most any consumer grade saw (right up to the Kapex) your going to be left short in multiple areas if not slightly on them all. Its just the nature of a tool that is trying to find power, accuracy, and portability. Kinda like the "pick one"... fast, cheap, or right, you cant have the triple threat.

    I had a 10" bosch dual rail slider for years that was my go-to saw because I could use the flexure in the saw to my advantage. I could cheat a miter by a bit when needed, I could even cove a miter slightly when needed with a bit of influence on the handle. A fault became one of my most used features of the saw.
    Last edited by Mark Bolton; 09-25-2020 at 1:46 PM.
    Sometimes I just want to look at pretty pictures,... Thats when I go to the Turners Forum

  14. #14
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    Dust collection is easy with a pull cut, and impossible with a push cut. I don't ever remember doing a push cut with mine. I first discovered this after using my setup for over a decade. I had a friend use it, and dust was covering everything. He was doing a push cut because "that's the way you're supposed to use one". Dust was going everywhere except into the box around the tool. With a pull cut, the dust comes out of the bottom of the cut, and is directed back into the DC box.

    I also don't remember ever having to clamp anything down to cut it, and don't think I've ever locked the blade up in a cut. I can see where not doing that might bring up some binding problems with push cuts.

    This after decades of using a radial arm saw before anyone ever made a power miter saw that I liked.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Aldrich View Post
    I have the Dewalt 779 and put an LED shadow line kit on it. I don’t know if they are still available but I got the saw for $325 because they were replacing it with the 780. The LED kit was about $50 and took about an hour to install. It works great for me. The only compliant I have is the saw jumps a little when you hit the trigger. That takes some time to get comfortable with.
    In that video by the millwork guy, he said he first bought the DW780 but didn't like it because, like you said, the saw jumped on him when he pulled the trigger. He said the Makita had a soft start which he described as it pulling up.

    I'm leaning heavily toward the Makita 12". About the only thing I don't like is it's made in China. I was thinking it would be Japan. Seems everything is made in China today.

    Acme has a $650 combo deal where they include a $200 portable stand. I could probably sell the stand for $100. The stand might also help sell my old Bosch.
    “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness..." - Mark Twain

    Diapers and Politicians need to be changed often... Usually for the same reason.

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