Replacing a SCMS

[Julie Moriarty]

Dust collection is easy with a pull cut, and impossible with a push cut..

I can't imagine doing a pull cut with anything more than maybe 1/4" thick. I've had some boards bind on my and if that was a pull cut I'd be in trouble.

[Tom M King]

The idea of a push cut scares me. The first motion is down, and then through. I do 4x's all the time, including angles. I don't remember ever having one, of anything, bind up. The guy that was using my saw bound a cut up. That's when I went to look at what he was doing. I don't want any of my saws binding up.

[johnny means]

Dust collection is easy with a pull cut, and impossible with a push cut. I don't ever remember doing a push cut with mine. I first discovered this after using my setup for over a decade. I had a friend use it, and dust was covering everything. He was doing a push cut because "that's the way you're supposed to use one". Dust was going everywhere except into the box around the tool. With a pull cut, the dust comes out of the bottom of the cut, and is directed back into the DC box.

I also don't remember ever having to clamp anything down to cut it, and don't think I've ever locked the blade up in a cut. I can see where not doing that might bring up some binding problems with push cuts.

This after decades of using a radial arm saw before anyone ever made a power miter saw that I liked.

Of course, the RAS blade cannot climb up and out of the kerf. I wouldn't let anyone in my shop do pull cuts with a SCMS. Pushing is actually how they are designed to be used.

[Tom M King]

I understand that. No one else uses mine, but me, and that's the way it will stay. Mine is a Dewalt 708. I can't remember how old it is (something over 15 years old, and many thousands of cuts), but it still cuts dead true because I believe the only time it's ever locked up is when that friend was using it.

I can use it inside a finished house, and not get any dust on anything. That's not doing push cuts though. Pull cuts throw the dust through this PVC pipe.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

My point was kinda more so speaking to someone intermittently using a saw. I think you know that with about 4 cuts on virtually any saw you or I could probably influence the saw from the handle to fudge a stain grade wide miter by perhaps a half degree or or more or even steer a bit of undercut when needed without ever adjusting the miter or bevel settings. That was my point about once you get accustomed to your saw, while some may have more nuisance nuance than others, they can be used to your advantage if you have that aptitude. No different than anyone, but having cut so much over the years I or anyone could probably get pretty clean results out of a saw that behaved like a wet noodle once you got your head around it.

But if your looking for a dead perfect, rigidity, power, dust pickup, accuracy, on down the line, out of most any consumer grade saw (right up to the Kapex) your going to be left short in multiple areas if not slightly on them all. Its just the nature of a tool that is trying to find power, accuracy, and portability. Kinda like the "pick one"... fast, cheap, or right, you cant have the triple threat.

I had a 10" bosch dual rail slider for years that was my go-to saw because I could use the flexure in the saw to my advantage. I could cheat a miter by a bit when needed, I could even cove a miter slightly when needed with a bit of influence on the handle. A fault became one of my most used features of the saw.

That's true Mark. Even my old trusty Makita has some wiggle room. Using the detents while swinging towards 0 is different by a tiny fraction of a degree than swinging away from 0. Like you said, it's actually useful to know that when doing trim in rooms that are never perfectly square or have flat walls.

It's also true that some people are just incapable of getting a good cut on any saw. I'm not aware of any human operated saws are completely idiot proof. Recently had a guy cut a pile of bookshelf girts +/- 1/4", using a saw and stop bolted to a flatbed trailer. He got a career change to site janitor.

[Bill McNiel]

Julie,
I have had the DeWalt 780 for approximately 7 years. Its primary function has been sizing material and carpentry tasks such as decks, etc. For the last 10 months or so it has been onsite for framing, siding, and trim on a bungalow home I've been building. I spent a bunch of time when I first bought it setting it up, getting everything as close to dead on as possible, actually not all that difficult but time consuming. It has held it settings very well, actually much better than I expected. It has proven to be so accurate that I didn't have to move my Delta chop saw out of its home in the shop for the intricate trim work.

The shadow line is really nice, much better than the laser line saws I have used. I have never experienced and issues with a "hard" start. Only downside is the depth required behind the saw. For construction stuff I use a Freud blade saving the Chopmaster 2 for fine work (I really love the Chopmaster blades for these type saws).

Regards - Bill

[Mark Bolton]

He got a career change to site janitor.

Welcome to my daily grind.

[Randall J Cox]

I've had and used a DeWalt 12" non slider, single bevel chop saw for going on 15 years now (on my second one, gave one to my son for a big project). They have both been dead on from day one. I've had people tell me this can't be. Don't care what anyone says, know how accurate my cuts have been on them for many years. Totally happy with them. Randy PS Know you asked about Makita, have no experience with any others....

[Dave Cav]

About a year and a half ago I sold my 12" Rockwell RAS when I got a Minimax slider. Last January I got a DeWalt DWS779 from Amazon for stuff I don't want to do on the slider. I used it for a shed construction project and some other odds and ends, but mostly it sits under one of my shop carts out of the way. I've always considered SCMS to be a construction tool, not something to be used for precision joinery. The DWS779 works fine, was cost effective, and has a lot of adjustments. It'll probably last me the rest of my woodworking career, but I don't use it much.

[Bernie Kopfer]

Two things. One, a properly adjusted Laser is a godsend once you use it a lot and understand its limitations. That is why I do not have the Bosch. Would like to try the shadow line type sometime. Two, the hold down ( at least on my Kapex) keeps wood from shifting particularly when doing any sort of angled cut. A angled push cut will move the wood ever so slightly, perhaps that is why some WW's say the SMCS is inaccurate.

[Frank Pratt]

A angled push cut will move the wood ever so slightly, perhaps that is why some WW's say the SMCS is inaccurate.

I don't think so, it's no different than with a non-slider. The source of inaccuracy with a slider is the side to side flex that is inherent with having the sliding mechanism. Even the best of them will flex with a little sideways pressure. The range from pretty good to terrible. I've never seen one that didn't have some flex. Even a cheap non-slider will be more rigid. But knowing its limitations is the key to getting good results with one.

[Bruce Thompson]

I made the same switch a year ago. My Bosch 10" on its Dewalt extension stand took up too much space in my shop (with the big roll-up door to the driveway which, oddly enough, makes my wife think it's a place to park her car!), so I needed something that could sit against the wall.

The Bosch 12" Sliding Glide Compound Miter Saw filled the bill perfectly. For short pieces as wide as 12" I can cut without moving the saw from its 54"-wide "parking spot" between workbench and bandsaw. Accuracy is first rate (with Forrest Chopmaster blade) and the glide action is effortless and smooth as glass - no more grinding sensation that I was used to from sawdust on the extension tubes of the old saw. Bosch has retained the great feature of all controls being at the front, but improved the accuracy of the miter angle indicator. The handle is horizontal for comfortable grip and a thumb release safety is setup for both right and left hands. I don't miss the lack of laser, as visibility is excellent for directly lining up blade to pencil mark from both sides of the line. If you need absolutely clean vertical cuts, you can easily make a zero clearance plate and save the factory one for when you do bevel cuts. Changing them out is easy and fairly quick.

Dust control is mediocre, so I added a shroud onto the rolling stand I built and connected it to my Mini-Gorilla dust control.

The only downside is that there is no adjustment if the blade motion is not quite straight - i.e., the blade can remain parallel to the cut line, but drift to one side or the other in its glide path. I bought mine at Home Depot where I was able to open boxes and test the glide. Two out of 4 machines drifted, so I bought one of the ones that was true.

[Julie Moriarty]

I ended up buying the Makita 1219. I spent most of the day taking the Bosch out, cleaning up and making mods to the miter cabinet. As part of this process, I removed the Rousseau dust hood for the time being and installed a Forrest Chopmaster blade, anxious to see how everything worked.

I just finished two test cuts on old Florida pine (very dense pine due to its resin content.) The first thing that struck me was how easy it was to operate. It seemed almost effortless. The soft start probably added to that feeling. No jerking at all.

The next thing I noticed was how quiet it was. Even with ear protection, the Bosch was screaming. The Makita seemed almost quiet, like comparing my Craftsman shop vac to my Festool CT26.

So, how about dust collection? The Bosch was like walking into a dust storm, and that's with the dust hood. With no dust hood, I expected to be gagging with the Makita. But dust collection was surprisingly efficient. It still needs to be tested with something more substantial but so far this has been a surprisingly pleasant experience.

[Joe Hendershott]

I also have the ls1019 and use it with a Festool collector. It does a pretty good job of getting 70% or more of everything. I have a shroud behind from a previous DeWalt but do not use it as the vac does a good enough job for me.

[Julie Moriarty]

I'm not so delighted with the miter saw anymore. The blade brake is already failing.

Sent an email to Acme.