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Thread: Piping new-to-me DC

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy D Jones View Post
    Therefore, simply because you have a blower, a filter and a duct length that supports 6" ductwork, you may not be able to support that duct size with a trash can separator.
    You are correct. But once you know what you have, you can then do the SP loss calculations for the duct work, fittings, et al. and compare the results to the fan curve. My fan curve is a two point (SP @0CFM, and CFM @0SP), and the the trash can separator SP loss is guessed for now (actually based on what I have for the 4" DC). Given that, the math says I am good with margin.

    All I have to do now is figure out how to connect the DC to the plumbing.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Whitesell View Post
    ...My fan curve is a two point (SP @0CFM, and CFM @0SP)...
    This, from a Wood Magazine test, might help fill that in a bit:

    Fan Curves_6inch_wood-magazine-review.jpg
    Beranek's Law:

    It has been remarked that if one selects his own components, builds his own enclosure, and is convinced he has made a wise choice of design, then his own loudspeaker sounds better to him than does anyone else's loudspeaker. In this case, the frequency response of the loudspeaker seems to play only a minor part in forming a person's opinion.
    L.L. Beranek, Acoustics (McGraw-Hill, New York, 1954), p.208.

  3. #18
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    I can't see the picture.

    Google found this

    https://www.woodmagazine.com/system/...CurveChart.pdf

    for 1.5HP DCs thoough.

    Is yours 1.5HP or 2HP?

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Whitesell View Post
    I can't see the picture.
    Click the "Donate" button.
    Beranek's Law:

    It has been remarked that if one selects his own components, builds his own enclosure, and is convinced he has made a wise choice of design, then his own loudspeaker sounds better to him than does anyone else's loudspeaker. In this case, the frequency response of the loudspeaker seems to play only a minor part in forming a person's opinion.
    L.L. Beranek, Acoustics (McGraw-Hill, New York, 1954), p.208.

  5. #20
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    I do not remember the exact figures but I significantly improved the measured vacuum with a simple neutral vane. Just a roll of flat sheet metal stuffed into the DC inlet. It ended up sticking in about two inches for maximum effect. Then I installed one sheet metal screw to keep it in place.
    Bill D.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by David L Morse View Post
    Click the "Donate" button.
    I haven't been able to sell anything this year. So I don't have any paypal monies.

  7. #22
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    Here's my 2 cents . Grizzly 1.5 , 2 , and 3 HP are all upgrades from the HF that is so common . All have a 12 3/4" impeller , with the 1.5 HP model is 10 mm shorter . I'm on my third shop built cyclone , and all three have been pretty good . We should decide I think what is "pretty good" . I've used 6" PVC on all 3 collectors , and got 775 to 875 CFM at the end 25' branches . I'm thrilled with it , but it's not up to Bill Pence numbers . Only other point is the Dust Deputy , Thien baffle , or trash can sep. add resistance , choose wisely .

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by james manutes View Post
    Here's my 2 cents . Grizzly 1.5 , 2 , and 3 HP are all upgrades from the HF that is so common . All have a 12 3/4" impeller , with the 1.5 HP model is 10 mm shorter . I'm on my third shop built cyclone , and all three have been pretty good . We should decide I think what is "pretty good" . I've used 6" PVC on all 3 collectors , and got 775 to 875 CFM at the end 25' branches . I'm thrilled with it , but it's not up to Bill Pence numbers . Only other point is the Dust Deputy , Thien baffle , or trash can sep. add resistance , choose wisely .
    How did you measure your CFM? I use the pitot tube method. I try to be consistant, but it's tough and I don't know how much error being off center introduces.

    I'm still stuck looking for parts to connect the darn thing.

  9. #24
    I don't have any 6 inch metal duct around, I used 5 inch. But the big box stores around here have it, the snap lock type (which is what I used, HD uses heavier gauge sheet metal). They also have fittings. So you could measure some and see what you think. If it is close but larger, tape wrapped around the DC connection might make up the difference.

    5 inch fittings are not easy to find and I used "Sheet Metal Kid" for my wyes. I did not look but he might have the 90 degree 6 inch fittings you want. If you google the phrase in quotes you should find him, they are in Oregon. Otherwise the fernco would be the most elegant way to mate the PVC to metal pieces. Duct tape would be another way that is not very elegant but would probably work.

    I think my little HF only has a 10 inch blower which is much smaller than your 13.5 inch. I will probably upgrade it to the Rikon 12 inch that a lot of people use at some point. The size of the blower certainly makes a difference. But if you put a 13.5 inch blower on a 2hp motor, it cannot be driven as hard as a 12 inch impeller - the motor is also a limitation in how much work can be done. (testing done by others shows the HF motor draws more current when the impeller size is increased which is the point I am trying to make. The Rikon 12 inch pushes the HF motor about to it's rating) I had a light dusting in a horizontal run of my 5 inch pipe going to my table saw when I cut into it for overhead dust collection (I put on a 3 inch wye). That makes me happy I did not use 6 inch. But your system is bigger and may work fine with 6 inch. But it is on the big side for a 2hp - but that increases airflow, it just decreases air velocity. I would expect you will have at least light dust buildup in your piping.

    It sounds like your cyclone is really tall, that should make it's separation very good. But since you have a setup you like, I can see you wanting to work with that. To me it comes down to filter cleaning. I hate it, you apparently are not as turned off by the results you get from your system as I was with mine. If you wanted to make the cyclone work, it is very possible to make a 2 foot high box for dust collection. If you made a box 3 feet square by 2 feet tall it would have about a 135 gallon capacity, for instance.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dwight View Post
    The size of the blower certainly makes a difference. But if you put a 13.5 inch blower on a 2hp motor, it cannot be driven as hard as a 12 inch impeller - the motor is also a limitation in how much work can be done. (testing done by others shows the HF motor draws more current when the impeller size is increased which is the point I am trying to make.
    No testing is required to know that if more load is put on a motor, the current increases.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dwight View Post
    If you wanted to make the cyclone work, it is very possible to make a 2 foot high box for dust collection. If you made a box 3 feet square by 2 feet tall it would have about a 135 gallon capacity, for instance.
    Where would I put the extra 12" of height you suggest? The motor, fan, cyclone body, and cone are 6 1/2 feet tall. The ceiling between the joists is just less than 7 1/2 feet. I have not looked into what the motor requires for clearance above it for airflow (and I know it won't be 0 inches).

  11. #26
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    Anthony, have you investigated not putting the fan on top of the cyclone but instead have some sort of ducting from the cyclone outlet to the side of the cyclone and put the blower and filters beside the cyclone? A straight shot from the cyclone outlet to the fan is optimum but I wonder if there's a way to have a rectangular duct on top of the cyclone transitioning to round for the blower inlet without too much suction loss. I guess there's not, I doubt I'm the first to have thought of this.

    I have a 2 h.p. DC much like the Grizzly and use 6" PVC pipe. The PVC fit snug enough over the DC inlet that duct tape was adequate to seal it. I have a Thien baffle built into the DC, I didn't want to extra hose with its attendant pressure loss and space of a separate collector. If I empty the bag when it's about half full I don't find it a difficult task.

  12. #27
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    I found an anenometer on Ebay , $39 , probably not real good . The thing to me is that w/ under-powered blowers (1.5 - 2 HP ) design is everything . Can you run PVC from the blower to the separator , that will help . Eliminate every foot of flex hose you can , from the tool's to the collection bin . I wouldn't worry about the readings of CFM w/ a trash can system , it won't be great . It will get the chips , and the fine's will pass thru . The Grizzly 1029 is a single bag , not ideal- do you have a cannister ? Under-powered DC's create the chance to "chase" the result we all want , when it is wiser to stop and get it right . The trash can is a bridge to the next solution . Time and budget drive decisions , we do the best we can .

  13. #28
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    A good example of your DC converted to a cyclone is Unemployed Hillbilly Redneck Creations on Youtube . A great source for a filter is Air Cleaning Specialists ( Chris Peanick / sales ) . Mine is 13" x 34" 282 sq. ft. sur. area , $94 . Wynn Envir. isn't the only option out there . Good luck with whatever you choose .

  14. #29
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    My blower w/ a Dust Deputy XL is 56" from the top of the motor to the bottom of the Dust Deputy . I've got 3' 6" for bin and discharge flex hose . Sounds like you've got a full size cyclone body on the scale of Clear Vue or a Onieda machine . I can see why you would use a trash can system for now . That 2 HP Grizzly wouldn't work well on a cyclone that size .

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Whitesell View Post
    Where would I put the extra 12" of height you suggest? The motor, fan, cyclone body, and cone are 6 1/2 feet tall. The ceiling between the joists is just less than 7 1/2 feet. I have not looked into what the motor requires for clearance above it for airflow (and I know it won't be 0 inches).
    I was in the same boat and could not fit any off-the-shelf trash can under my cyclone, so I had to build a box out of 3/4 ply. So far it works fine even though it is only about 20” tall.

    269B7F06-F924-4847-9800-4849B3369D50.jpg
    Last edited by Marc Fenneuff; 09-26-2020 at 12:36 AM.

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