Matching yellowing lacquer on an old cabinet

[scott vroom]

I'm making a red oak kitchen cabinet that I'd like to match as close as possible to the existing 20-30 year old red oak cabinets that I'm pretty sure were finished with pre-cat lacquer and are now yellowed. I'm trying to avoid time consuming experiments with dyes and stains and was wondering if there exists a finish that would have that yellow tone. I did a sample years ago using GF Enduro-Var and didn't like it because of the amber tone, and I don't now how close to old lacquer it looked. Any suggestions? Maybe an amber shellac for color then a poly top coat? Spar varnish?

[Jim Becker]

Scott, I strongly suggest you're going to have to do what you really don't want to do...and that's create test pieces and work your way to the tone you need using dye in the finish. I would not put color directly on the wood for this exercise as you're trying to duplicate an aged clear coat...at least that's what I'm reading from context. Matching "old work" is an artform...

[Phil Mueller]

Here’s a vid that shows one way to address it. He uses spar urethane.

https://youtu.be/JgeOfYxqh50

[scott vroom]

Thanks Jim. That sounds like the right way to do the job, however I have zero experience with dye tinting and am short on time on this project. The homeowner will settle for a low cost quick fix that gets the color close...he plans to replace all of the cabinets in a few years.

I'm interested in learning how to work with dyes...would Jeff @ Homestead be a good source? Is all of your dye work water based?

[scott vroom]

Thanks Phil, that looks promising. I'll give it a try. Do you know if the spar urethanes lay down flat when applied with a brush?

[Phil Mueller]

Scott, the only experience I have with spar urethanes is on an old outdoor picnic table. I did thin it about 25% with mineral spirits and applied with a foam brush. It laid down pretty well.

[scott vroom]

I'd prefer thinning for my hvlp but am concerned about an explosion from a spark from my shop exhaust fan.

[Jim Becker]

I'm interested in learning how to work with dyes...would Jeff @ Homestead be a good source? Is all of your dye work water based?

I only use waterborne finishes other than some wax free shellac. Jeff is a great resource and "the source" for TransTint.

I'd prefer thinning for my hvlp but am concerned about an explosion from a spark from my shop exhaust fan.

Spraying oil based finishes is a "thankless task" because they are so slow drying. The overspray is sticky for a long time and since limited coats can be applied in a single day, the workload for cleanup is a lot more. There is "less" risk from explosion with an oil based product than things like lacquer, but it's still there. Waterborne finishes are a pleasure to spray since they dry quickly and can be recoated many times in a single day. And no explosion concern. (You still do need to wear personal protection...respirator and eye...and have good ventilation, however)

[scott vroom]

Jim, good points about the mess of spraying oils. I've been using exclusively WB coatings with an HVLP for 11 years. I'll try brushing the spar urethane first, thinning to minimize brush strokes.

[Jim Becker]

Spar urethane is a pretty soft, long oil finish...it's designed to flex on...well, spars. Just keep that in mind given the application.

[John TenEyck]

Scott, if you don't have someone to show you the only way to learn to use dyes is to use them. They are not hard to use so there is no reason not to give it go.

Having said that I was able to match some aged lacquer red oak cabinets by spraying Sealcoat shellac and then GF's High Performance. Darned near perfect. The corner shelf cabinet is the one I made.



But to match these aged red oak kitchen cabinets I had to use a mix of Transtint dyes. Here's a photo of my test piece against one of the existing doors.




I ended up using Transtint in Sealcoat first and then another Transtint in the EnduroVar topcoat.



I made the cabinets on the left and right:



How long did it take to get the color matches figured out? 15 minutes for the first job, I got lucky, but still less than 2 hours for the second.

John

[scott vroom]

Thanks, John

To be clear, the corner shelf in the top pic is un-tinted Sealcoat shellac? It looks perfect.

Do you recall the recipe's or the transdye colors used in the other project?

Did you experiment with an amber shellac on any of those projects?

[John TenEyck]

Thanks, John

To be clear, the corner shelf in the top pic is un-tinted Sealcoat shellac? It looks perfect.

Do you recall the recipe's or the transdye colors used in the other project?

Did you experiment with an amber shellac on any of those projects?

Yes, the corner shelf finish was Sealcoat w/o dye, then GF's High Performance Poly.

The recipe for the lower project was: Spray one coat of Sealcoat shellac then sand lightly after drying. This helped to minimize accentuating the grain when I applied the toner. Spray one coat of toner made from 15 ml Sealcoat + 3 drops of Transtint Dark Vintage Maple dye. Spray one coat of finish toner made from 750 ml EnduroVar Satin + 50 drops Transtint ???. Sorry, but it's not in my notes. If I had to guess I'd say I used Medium Brown. Finally, spray a coat of EnduroVar Satin w/o dye.

I don't recall if I tried amber shellac for either of these projects, but I often use it as a base for shellac toners. I use Zinsser, which has wax in it, so I spray a coat of Sealcoat over the final toner coat before I apply my WB finish coats.

The above may give you a starting point.

John

[scott vroom]

Thanks John.

I made a sample board this afternoon using Zinsser Amber shellac, 2 coats. It's a very close match to the existing cab finish...it would be near perfect with the addition of an ever-so-slight red tint added.

I first tried just the Seal Coat but it was too light and didn't have the depth of color of the original cab finish.

[Jim Becker]

Scott, just remember that the Amber shellac may not be wax free and if so, you'll need to deal with that before applying your top coats.