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Thread: Air cleaners for west coast fires?

  1. #1

    Air cleaners for west coast fires?

    Oh, the air outside is frightful, but the woodworking's so delightful...

    For years I've gotten by with a dust collector and periodically wiping up the fine dust that eventually coats all surfaces. This year is particularly bad, though, and the far side of my shop (all 20' away) is lost in a haze of smoke. This got me looking at commercial air cleaners; Woodcraft currently has a Jet model on sale, and Grizzly has a selection of options as well. Unfortunately, I can't find any recent reviews of any models - a search online is lost in a spew of "my totally trusted review site" with bad grammar and Amazon referral links.

    Is anyone using an air cleaner to combat the smoke? Does it work? If so, do you have a preferred model?

  2. #2
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    I'm using .3 micron canister filters on both my dust collector and an 1000 cfm home built air filter. These do a great job keeping wood dust under control but don't do much for smoke. It does clear smoke from the air (can't see it) but you can still smell it. I suspect it only gets the largest smoke particals. I think you might look into something like a Blue OX 1100 High Performance Smoke Eater. I've seen these used in private clubs where smoking is allowed and they seem to take away the visible cigarette smoke pretty quickly and nearly all the odor. I looked at Blue Ox a few years ago to handle some kitchen odors. At around $1500 bucks I didn't think the price was bad but it was a bit to large to fit in a home kitchen.

  3. #3
    The problem is that smoke is made up of larger particles and all types of gases and vapors. It's like trying to filter pond water through a sock. You may catch a lot of the algae and mosquito larvae, but it's still going to taste like pond water. Worse yet, it might just seem clean enough that you drink a little, not realizing that all the bacteria is still there.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rege Sullivan View Post
    I'm using .3 micron canister filters on both my dust collector and an 1000 cfm home built air filter. These do a great job keeping wood dust under control but don't do much for smoke. It does clear smoke from the air (can't see it) but you can still smell it. I suspect it only gets the largest smoke particals. I think you might look into something like a Blue OX 1100 High Performance Smoke Eater. I've seen these used in private clubs where smoking is allowed and they seem to take away the visible cigarette smoke pretty quickly and nearly all the odor. I looked at Blue Ox a few years ago to handle some kitchen odors. At around $1500 bucks I didn't think the price was bad but it was a bit to large to fit in a home kitchen.
    A HEPA filter (99.97% down to .3 micron) l will remove smoke particulates, but not the gasses that stink. Not sure what will get rid of that, other than a carbon filter.

  5. #5
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    For right now I take off my cars air filter and shake it clean, tap it, once a week or so as long as I am seeing ashes on the vehicles. I will replace them, when this tapers off. They are supposed to be replaced every few years. Normally I do it before. a smog check.
    Bil lD

  6. #6
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    Its really been bad here, the other day it looked like snow, white ash floating down on everything. We live up close to the foothills in the central Calif valley that lead to the Sierra Nevada mountains, fires all over the place. Hard to even know where the sun is.... I have 3 hepa filters in use in my small shop (Fein shopvac, Powermatic 2hp system piped from machines and Jet overhead box), don't think they will do anything for smoke. I just stay in the house for now. What a mess this state has become. Randy
    Randy Cox
    Lt Colonel, USAF (ret.)

  7. #7
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    This was sunrise Saturday, in Tucson. It's unretouched (other than color balanced), this is about half as smokey as when we had a fire a couple miles from us in July. I'm about 500 miles from the closest fire, about 900 from the bulk in CA. I'm not sure if a shop air cleaner could keep up. The pictures my friends are sharing from the bay area and in Portland are insane.



    btw, the picture's really about the only way I can adequately describe just how far the smoke has travelled.
    Last edited by mike stenson; 09-14-2020 at 11:33 AM.
    ~mike

    happy in my mud hut

  8. #8
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    https://www.staples.com/honeywell-qu...8aAl9xEALw_wcB

    name: Honeywell QuietCleanŽ Tower Air Purifier with Permanent Filters (HWLHFD230BV1)


    we have 2 of these, one in the family room and one in our bedroom. the filters are washable and while not certified as hepa, they rely of electostatic filters that are quite efficient and washable. every time i wash them, the water turns a black/green color so they are working. i have also seen a dramatic decrease in days where my dust/pollen allergies are bad.

    we have had some heavy smoke days from 2 of colorado's largest ever fires this year, we are not too far from the Cameron peak fire. and have found these to work great. they have several models with the same filters.
    Last edited by Adam Herman; 09-14-2020 at 11:59 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike stenson View Post
    ...the picture's really about the only way I can adequately describe just how far the smoke has travelled.
    The weather guy mentioned yesterday that our sunsets here in central OH are more colorful (red) due to smoke fron the west coast fires.
    Brian

    "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger or more complicated...it takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." - E.F. Schumacher

  10. #10
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    Getting air you can see through is a lot easier than getting air that does not smell smoky. Our sense of smell (which hardly compares with many other animals') is capable of sensing parts per million and parts per billion concentrations, depending on the chemical. It takes far more than a particle filter to get the smell out. Activated carbon and other materials/processes that work at the molecular level are used for that.

    The capability of sensing organic chemicals in our environment goes WAY back in our evolutionary past, even to microscopic organisms in the primordial soup.

    Chemicals were the among the first forms of primitive communication between animals (and, for all we know, plants.) Being able to recognize one's own species (or even parent/child), food, prey/predator, etc. by chemical signatures existed long before other senses, and is still relied upon today (e.g. a cow recognizes her own calf, and vice-versa, by smell, over sight and/or sound).

    Thus, it is often smells which trigger our longest-lost memories, since the ability to recognize and associate a smell with a memory (good or bad) also existed far back in our evolutionary past, in the earliest functions of what evolved into brains.

    -- Andy - Arlington TX

  11. #11
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    That's an interesting question, interesting enough to do some tests. A few months ago a thread here prompted me to redo some testing I had done a number of years ago on the cheap box fan/furnace filter hack. Net result was I ended up with two cheap box fans with MERV 12 filters in my shop. So, I burned some newspaper in the shop and then turned on the fans and recorded particulate levels for a while.
    SmokeTestPM091420.jpg
    (the X axis is minutes after midnight)

    The PM2.5 levels are probably the most representative of total smoke. The time constant for the exponential decrease in PM 2.5 is 20 minutes. With my 6000 cubic foot shop that translates to an effective clean air flow of 300 CFM or about 150 CFM per fan. Not great but still effective. That 150 CFM is roughly equivalent to the AHAM CADR rating.

    Here are the particle counts you would get with a Dylos:
    SmokeTestDylos091420.jpg

    I just checked the numbers and after two hours of running the fans my PM numbers are all 0 and the Dylos equivalent is 11/0. Of course I have no smoke infiltration so you wouldn't get the same numbers in Portland!
    Beranek's Law:

    It has been remarked that if one selects his own components, builds his own enclosure, and is convinced he has made a wise choice of design, then his own loudspeaker sounds better to him than does anyone else's loudspeaker. In this case, the frequency response of the loudspeaker seems to play only a minor part in forming a person's opinion.
    L.L. Beranek, Acoustics (McGraw-Hill, New York, 1954), p.208.

  12. #12
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    Smoke is very fine, usually in the 0.1 to 1 micron size. Most welding fume collectors that primarily filter smoke use a very good cartridge filter. Even with this, you may not get the "smell" as that is vapors and requires a different technology.

  13. #13
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    We used rental HEPA filters at our office during a big fire two years ago. They made a quick and measurable difference in our indoor air quality. You really want filters that get particulates smaller than 2.5 microns, so HEPA filters.

    Be very careful of anything that is advertised as “ionizing”. There were a bunch of ozone generators marketed as indoor air purifiers a few years back. Ozone is actually a pollutant, but it masks your sense of smell. https://www.epa.gov/indoor-air-quali...d-air-cleaners

  14. #14
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    I just saw a review on my phone for these. I think it was reviewed.com.

    They said that many of these units have either sold out or are selling like hotcakes because of the fires.

    I really like my Iomega HEPA unit, but I don't have to deal with smoke.
    - After I ask a stranger if I can pet their dog and they say yes, I like to respond, "I'll keep that in mind" and walk off
    - It's above my pay grade. Mongo only pawn in game of life.

  15. #15
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    Check out Matt Risinger's video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYedx7bo0tw

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