Clear Vue Motor not starting - arg

[Bob Cooper]

i'm really hoping i don't have to dis-assemble anything but bottom line the motor has power but is not starting. 5HP motor that comes w/Clear Vue Cyclone. The motor is up in the joists since my ceiling in my cellar is kind of low to it's a little tough to get to but i'm wondering if there's any kind of reset switch or something easy to check. If not that what would be the next thing to try/measure? i can feel the two capacitor covers but i'm not sure sure i can remove them w/o dis-assembly.

Background - the lid on my dust barrel developed a crack so i'd been working on it....see other thread. Left home this weekend. Came back this morning, fixed the top on the barrel, assembled it and went to turn on the (light) switch and noticed that it was "up"...which was odd as i know i had turned it off. The switch goes to a contactor. i verified that the the contactor is working and that 220 is being delivered thru the contactor so i'm sure the motor is getting power. What i don't know if is someone accidentally flipped the switch while i was out of town and just left it on. Kids don't live at home but they do stop by from time to time. If they did there would have been no barrel at the bottom of the cyclone and it should have been loud enough for them to know something was amiss. but who knows.

Suggestions on what to check/how to debug?

[Malcolm McLeod]

...

Suggestions on what to check/how to debug?

... the motor has power...

So maybe you've done all this, but "the law of halves" applies well to electrical trouble-shooting :: start checking things in the middle. If the problem is upstream, cut that half in half again. 2-3 iterations, and you're looking at the cause.

Verify power first. Does the contactor close when you hit the switch?

Close = No:
Power to the coil is compromised. Got a multimeter? Test for power on the A1/A2 contactor terminals. If 'yes', coil is shot.
If 'no', look for a GFCI or CB feeding the switch (and thus coil voltage to your contactor) that may be tripped.

Close = Yes:
Check main voltage feeding the contactor ('L' terminals). If none, the problem is between the contactor & the CB (? - assuming you have such). If no CB, are you on a phase converter?

If voltage upstream, check the motor side of contactor ('T' terminals). If none, the problem is the contacts. If 'yes' then either the wire is compromised or the motor is the issue.

Have you tested for voltage in the motor peckerhead? Can you apply power, then spin the impeller (maybe hit it with a leaf blower) and motor starts (should probably hum til you rotate it)? If that works, look at the starting cap or centrifugal switch. ...Does not sound fun based on your description of access.
****
I test ran my Clearvue on a VFD, and it would trip the O/L on the VFD before it was at 25% rpm - - IF I had the barrel disconnected. The VFD wasn't hurt, just had to reset. But lesson was that the DC draws WAY TOO MUCH air thru the bottom (dump). It needs the resistance of the cyclone inlet. (I got 3-phase motor package, so I don't have to spelunk in the rafters.)

[Bob Cooper]

Well I know I’m getting power to the motor because I can engage the contractor and measure 240v on the output side. I Don’t hear any kind of hum or sound though

[Malcolm McLeod]

So that leaves just the wire and the motor. The simple 'test' now is the wire, as unlikely as it may seem as the issue.
You have not mentioned a CB or O/L tripping, so this is a long shot - - disconnect the T-leads from contactor and check continuity of each lead to ground. (:: a winding shorted / wire damaged.)
Can you get in the peckerhead and verify voltage? (:: the wires are not cut/damaged.)
Could it be as simple as a wire nut/lug came loose in the peckerhead? (:: still have to get to it.)

That leaves the motor. I assume you have the Leeson motor, so maybe another SMCer can eye-ball theirs and report on any on-board reset? Failing that, I'm out of ideas except to pull the motor. ...Your description makes it sound like testing and repair 'in-place' is impossible.

I wish I had a better path forward for you, but that is the best I've got.

[John K Jordan]

Bob,

I asked google for does leeson 5hp motor have a reset button and it gave me a link to a thread on the ClearVue forum which has some comments about a manual reset button.

If I can get time later today I'll try to climb up and check mine. Fortunately, the motor on mine just fits under the ceiling.

JKJ

[Malcolm McLeod]

John's reference got me looking too. I checked the Leeson website, and I believe they only offer 2 single-phase motors that meet the Clearvue spec:

1) Leeson 5 HP General Purpose Motor, 1 phase, 3600 RPM, 230 V, 184TC Frame, TEFC - 131632.00
Catalog #:131632.00 Part #:131632.00

Leeson schematics show ^this^ does have a manual reset.


2) Leeson 5 HP General Purpose Motor, 1 phase, 3600 RPM, 230 V, 184TC Frame, TEFC - 131778.00
Catalog #:131778.00 Part #:131778.00

Leeson schematics show ^this^ does not have a manual reset.

Maybe check the Clearvue paperwork for which they provided?
If so equipped and this manual reset fixes the issue, I'd look at changing the trip settings on your overloads at contactor (or install such). ...O/L should be much easier to reset than any on-board reset at the motor?

[Bob Cooper]

Thanks all. I just got thru disconnecting the cyclone but haven’t taken the motor down yet — it’s screwed to the base of the joists. Waiting for cousin to come help me drop it. While waiting I saw the new posts and also did the search on the reset. It appears there is one and it’s tough to push. I’m going to check it out.

[John K Jordan]

Thanks all. I just got thru disconnecting the cyclone but haven’t taken the motor down yet — it’s screwed to the base of the joists. Waiting for cousin to come help me drop it. While waiting I saw the new posts and also did the search on the reset. It appears there is one and it’s tough to push. I’m going to check it out.

A little while ago with a light and a mirror I climbed and checked the 5hp Leeson on my ClearVue. I can find no reset button on the motor or the electrical box. I noticed the 5hp motor on my air compressor has a red reset button on the end so I double checked the Leeson and no button. Curious, where on the motor was the button you found?

JKJ

[Bob Cooper]

Problem solved. There is a rubber cover about 3/4” in diameter and 1/2” tall on the peckerhead/wire box. It does not feel like a reset button is there but it’s there and I took a short stubby screwdriver and pushed in and heard a click.

Given how everything is mounted it was just tough to get to and see. But a lot easier than dropping the motor and prop.

Thanks all for the help.

[Bob Cooper]

So Malcolm...do contactors normally have adjustable items? I can look at mine but not sure there’s any kind of reset on it

[Malcolm McLeod]

So Malcolm...do contactors normally have adjustable items? I can look at mine but not sure there’s any kind of reset on it

Most contactors do not - - they are simply a fancy on/off switch.

There are overloads modules (or old-school "heaters") that can be added - - simple, if you have the space in the contactor's enclosure. Overloads can be adjusted by dial on the front to trip within a given ampere range. Set the O/L to trip at slightly less than the motor's on-board trip rating and you don't have to repeat this exercise with a ladder and 4 hrs work...

Your contactor's coil voltage passes thru the O/L and drops out the coil when the O/L trips.

[John K Jordan]

Problem solved. There is a rubber cover about 3/4” in diameter and 1/2” tall on the peckerhead/wire box. It does not feel like a reset button is there but it’s there and I took a short stubby screwdriver and pushed in and heard a click.

Given how everything is mounted it was just tough to get to and see. But a lot easier than dropping the motor and prop.

Thanks all for the help.

Ha! Thanks to you for that info - mine has the same thing. I saw and felt the thick rubber cover and started to pull it off but the space was too tight and I quit. I wondered for 5 seconds if it had a reset button under it then decided, no, why would they do that.

JKJ

[Bob Cooper]

John I see you retire from Oak Ridge. I almost took a job at Sandia out of college. Didn’t even know what the National labs were at the time

[John K Jordan]

John I see you retire from Oak Ridge. I almost took a job at Sandia out of college. Didn’t even know what the National labs were at the time

I retired in '06 after 30 years there. I did software engineering for the first 15 years and traveled to Sandia and Livermore Labs several times for projects. I enjoyed driving around the area on weekends, up and down the coast and all the way to Yosemite.

Have you lived in SC long? I'm headed there again later this week, near Greenville.

JKJ

[Bill Dufour]

Well I know I’m getting power to the motor because I can engage the contractor and measure 240v on the output side. I Don’t hear any kind of hum or sound though

Not true, you know the wire is getting power at one end. If you measured the wire. If you measured the terminal screw, like most would, you do not know if the wire is getting power or not. I would retighten the output screws just in case.
Bil lD