Cleaning up joinery with alternating grain

[Jason Buresh]

So I did a quick practice rabbet with some scrap for a project I am working on. I wasn't paying close enough attention and I glued the face board opposite grain direction to the rabbet. The rabbet sits just barely proud of the face. I have been considering using my smoothing plane to clean this up, but how would I avoid tear out?

I am considering riding the iron just on the rabbet until it's very close and then finishing with a card scraper. Or is there a better way?

In a perfect world, I would have paid more attention, but I am going to chalk this one up to a learning experience.

[Robert Hazelwood]

This kind of thing isn't a big deal once you learn to use a cap iron on a bevel-down bench plane. If you have a BD plane (i.e. any typical Stanley, or LN, or Vertias Custom, etc.) try setting the cap iron very close to the edge on some scrap and plane against the grain with a moderate shaving thickness. Adjust it until the shaving comes out straight (not curled) and there is no tearout produced. Once you master this, you won't think twice about using a plane for jobs like this, and the plane will do a better job than any other tool. Here's a decent video on setting the cap iron (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pAVgfSPMN0)

If you just want to get this done without taking the time to experiment with the cap iron, or if you don't have a bevel down plane, a very sharp iron and very thin shavings are your friends. Since you say the rabbet ledge is just barely proud, it shouldn't take you long even with the thinnest of shavings. It's possible to get a little tearout but it shouldn't be very deep at all and should scrape/sand out easily.

The other approach is to increase the cutting angle. By putting a steep microbevel on a bevel-up plane, or by putting a back bevel on a bevel-down plane, so that the effective cutting angle is increased to about 60 degrees.

Your idea of planing until almost flush and then scraping would also work, but its more efficient and elegant to use the plane.

Things like this are why the cap iron is such a big deal. I don't think much about grain direction for planing when designing joints like this. I just think about aesthetics and stability. When planing I work in whatever direction is most convenient instead of being limited by grain orientation. It takes a little practice and trial and error, and maybe some fettling with the cap iron on a vintage plane, but turns the plane into a much more versatile tool.

OK, off the soapbox. Good luck and let us know how it works out.

[Jim Matthews]

Use of sandpaper is not a sin.

A large sheet, glued to a flat surface would keep the finished surface in one plane.

[Jason Buresh]

Robert,

Thank you so much for the useful advice. I advanced the chipbreaker and closed the mouth up a little bit and I did not have issues. Very very light cuts were taken.

[Charles Guest]

So I did a quick practice rabbet with some scrap for a project I am working on. I wasn't paying close enough attention and I glued the face board opposite grain direction to the rabbet. The rabbet sits just barely proud of the face. I have been considering using my smoothing plane to clean this up, but how would I avoid tear out?

I am considering riding the iron just on the rabbet until it's very close and then finishing with a card scraper. Or is there a better way?

In a perfect world, I would have paid more attention, but I am going to chalk this one up to a learning experience.

I see that all turned out well. I would add, though, that scraping should be in your arsenal despite what you may hear. A No. 4 cannot negotiate every surface you might encounter.

Take a look:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAlcgWKdIlo

https://charteris.net/

[Warren Mickley]

I see that all turned out well. I would add, though, that scraping should be in your arsenal despite what you may hear. A No. 4 cannot negotiate every surface you might encounter.

I am glad nobody told this to me fifty years ago; I stopped scraping in 1976.

[Tom Trees]

I am glad nobody told this to me fifty years ago; I stopped scraping in 1976.

Many many thanks Warren Mickley, Weaver's crusadeTM since 2012 cap iron publication about how to use a double iron hand plane has helped me immensely,
and i understand you wrangled with David to make him see the light.

I was close to making or buying another low angle plane, which probably wouldn't have been even
half as nice as David's low angle plane with it's 5 thou mouth, hunk of iron with the boat anchor thick iron.
I believe he uses it as a paperweight nowadays...
Glad I didn't stumble across that article if it exists!

I bought a LN 60 1/2 early on.. (which sits at the folks in a box)
But to deal with the timber I'd bought a Bailey no.3, and Stanley no.80 to dimension alternating grain.in iroko and other tropicals.
Even trying to plane those bandings with alternating directions with the narrow no.3, and the scraper plane to get at the inbetween, and the figured..
it was soo tough to scrape flat long timbers sometimes, and even wrote WFH (wood from hell) on those timbers to avoid them.
That sweating and dust from not setting the cap iron whilst scraping to get down to the bottom voids was giving me reactions with the timbers.

It's very hard work dimensioning with a scraper. as it goes dull fast.

Now it's the opposite and I look for those timbers with WFH and have never came across any sample of any species that cannot be planed.
It's quite strange that people still suggest scraping flat surfaces...

I suppose it's hard letting go of the illusion that the front of the mouth has any part to play when the cap iron is working,
Folks won't believe the cap iron can be set closer than they think, with significantly less resistance and better results than before,
when the frog is back all the way to the castings/mouth is not tight.

All the best, and thanks again
Tom

[Charles Guest]

I am glad nobody told this to me fifty years ago; I stopped scraping in 1976.

Is everything you build flat, no curves, no mouldings, veneer, nothing? Crest rails, chair splads, chair legs, bombe' forms? Any of this, ever? Never used a shaped scraper to tidy up moulding? Scratched a moulding? How do you handle burls, oysters, veneer, inlay? What if these are laid on a surface that's not flat?

[Warren Mickley]

I see that all turned out well. I would add, though, that scraping should be in your arsenal despite what you may hear. A No. 4 cannot negotiate every surface you might encounter.

Who said anything about mouldings or crest rails? Certainly not Jason. Certainly not you. Certainly not me. What in the world did you mean by "despite what you hear"? Did you think that he heard that a smoothing plane could make mouldings?

[Derek Cohen]

One only has to face plane the glued join of a book-matched panel, with its opposing grain direction, to recognise the superiority of a closed chipbreaker over a high cutting angle plane. No contest. However ....

There are many ways to skin a cat, and all of them capable of success. Cabinet scrapers also work well, and this was my choice in the following example. Here the panels were 1/4” thick (they are floating in a curved frame), and all that was required was to remove any ridges or unevenness at the join. A hand plane was overkill and, in fact, more likely to do damage.





Link: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/BackonTrack.html

Just one of many places where you would seek to apply an appropriate, targeted method.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jason Buresh]

Derek,

Very helpful. Thank you. I have a scraper I can get pretty good results with, although one of these days I have to order a real burnisher instead of using my screwdriver.

I have learned a lot this week. I set the chipbreaker much closer to the edge and tightened up the mouth and I instantly started getting better results. I also have started honing and stropping more often. I learned that just because a plane is still cutting doesn't mean it's sharp enough.

I am guessing as I get more experienced I will learn what tool is best for what process. I have no problem using a scraper or in some cases even sandpaper.

I have only been at hand tools for about a year, and most of that has been acquiring tools and setting up shop, although I have made a few projects along the way. This is my first time working with real wood that wasn't bought pre dimensional from the big orange home improvement store. So I appreciate everyone's input and patience helping me answer greenhorn questions.

Jason

[Steve Voigt]

I have learned a lot this week. I set the chipbreaker much closer to the edge and tightened up the mouth and I instantly started getting better results.

Jason

Glad to hear you are getting good results. One small suggestion: try opening the mouth back up. Generally speaking, you should either use the mouth or the chipbreaker to control tear-out, but not both.
Depending on a variety of factors, the chipbreaker can be effective across a range from .003-.020 from the cutting edge, but in most situations the effective range will be smaller, roughly .005-.015.
On the other hand for mouth to have any real effect, you need a very flat sole and a maximum mouth opening of about .004.
My admittedly biased belief is that you will get more benefit from the chipbreaker than from a tight mouth, but I'd encourage anyone to experiment and test both variables in isolation, using a common Stanley plane or similar. Try locking down the cap iron as close as possible with a wide open mouth; then, try closing up the mouth til it's too small to squeeze a strip of paper through, but pull the chipbreaker back. Compare the results, and draw your own conclusions.
For both approaches, preparation is key. For the chipbreaker to work, it must be set up properly--most aftermarket chipbreakers won't work out of the box. For the mouth to stop tear-out, there can't be any hollow in front of the mouth.

[Jason Buresh]

I will have to experiment with that. I might back the frog off just a little. I have been getting a better surface finish but the mouth clogs easier now too so I will back it up.

Thanks Steve!

[Thomas Crawford]

One only has to face plane the glued join of a book-matched panel, with its opposing grain direction, to recognise the superiority of a closed chipbreaker over a high cutting angle plane. No contest. However ....

Hi Derek -

What is going on with the wood fibers in this case that makes the close chipbreaker a better method?

[Derek Cohen]

Thomas, when a book-matched panel is joined, the grain of each panel runs in the opposing direction to each other. Consequently, when planing the intersection of the two pieces, you are always going to be planing into the grain. That section is at risk for tearout. A closed up chipbreaker manages this better than a high cutting angle.

Regards from Perth

Derek