Shellac is stupid

[Nathan Johnson]

Did you do a light sanding after the first coat? Sometimes that first coat can dry a little on the rough side, especially if there was some sanding dust left on the piece (or in the pores) or if it raises the grain a little. If you are going for a real smooth finish (and the wood was prepared perfectly flat) you can use a sanding block, otherwise hand held sandpaper works. I usually wipe of the dust with at tack cloth before the next coat.

You can also sand between coats after the first if desired, but but definitely sand after the first coat. It will make the biggest difference.

I raised the grain prior to starting with the shellac and knocked that down with 320, then tack cloth.
I hand-sanded with 320 after the second coat.
I thinned even more after that and sanded again with 400 after every few coats.
Maybe I need to be more accurate with my mix to start with.

[glenn bradley]

Loved the title. Made me laugh. I never recommend trying a new finish on a production piece. Test boards, test boards, test boards . . . we all know this but, I bet we have all skipped testing and been sorry on one thing or another ;-) There are endless discussions of shellac and the many ways it can be used. For padding I try to stick to these ground rules:
- Thin, thin coats
- Do not go back over an area, fix it on the next pass.

Shellac will burn-in. that is each coat partially dissolves the surface of the previous coat. Often wrinkles or application marks just wipe away on the second pass. Being able to ignore small imperfections and move on knowing they will be addressed on the next pass is key for me.

[Jim Becker]

Shellac is an evaporative finish that uses alcohol as it's carrier and to dissolve the flakes into a liquid. Alcohol flashes off very quickly which is why it's very challenging and an "art form" to brush or pad it. French Polish even uses oil to keep the applicator from sticking. To be fair, solvent based lacquer (also evaporative) would be equally challenging to hand apply. The so-called "brushing" lacquers are actually formulated to slow down the evaporation of the solvent.

So the difficulty you are experiencing with shellac isn't the product...it's like you said, something that takes time to learn and feel comfortable with.

[Curt Harms]

I raised the grain prior to starting with the shellac and knocked that down with 320, then tack cloth.
I hand-sanded with 320 after the second coat.
I thinned even more after that and sanded again with 400 after every few coats.
Maybe I need to be more accurate with my mix to start with.

One of the useful things about using shellac as an undercoat is that it doesn't raise grain. Water raises grain and shellac has little or no water in it. I sprayed a couple louvered doors with Sealcoat then sanded them. Sanding went pretty fast. Then two coats of an acrylic enamel. REALLY nice finish, absolutely smooth. Spraying is the best way to apply it though. You can get slower drying alcohols that might help with hand application. Then there's the hand rail I made for a friend. I did the woodwork and sprayed on a coat of Sealcoat. I told him to be sure to sand it before painting. He didn't. Looks and feels like crap.

[Jim Becker]

One of the useful things about using shellac as an undercoat is that it doesn't raise grain. Water raises grain and shellac has little or no water in it.

Probably best to say that shellac doesn't raise grain "much" because as you note the alcohol used to dissolve shellac isn't necessarily water free. That's why it's a best practice to give a few quick swipes with 320/400 paper or a synthetic pad after the first application of shellac as there will likely be some very minor fiber raising, depending on the wood species, to have a good, clean sealed surface for subsequent steps.

The situation is similar for when using alcohol soluble dyes...there will be a very slight grain raise, but nothing like when using water soluble dye.

[Prashun Patel]

I understand your frustration. IMHO, it's best to start with Zinsser Sealcoat. It's already thinned to a consistency that will allow you to wipe it, spray it or brush it.

Shellac, while a great finish itself, is very good as a barrier coat or a wash coat under other finishes or between dye / stain and a top coat. It's a worthwhile skill to develop.

That being said, I have come to feel shellac is best SPRAYED. If I were you, I'd get a cheap HVLP sprayer (Woodcraft, Rockler, Harbor Freight all sell variants of the same one). You can use this unit to spray shellac. AFter a session, you can spray a little bit of DNA through it just to clear out the nozzle. You will be able to use this same unit to spray waterbased or alcohol based dyes.

This will solve all of your problems - and will give you a way better looking finish than you can ever brush shellac (I'm not talking about french polishing).

If you choose to brush, you cannot back brush it or tip it off like varnish. You have to lay it down and let it be. If there are missed spots, you have to get them on your next coat. I get the best brush results by thinning sealcoat another 10% with isopropyl alcohol - not rubbing alcohol - pure IPA. This has a slower evap rate than ethanol and will allow the product to flow just a tiny bit better. If you are super quick, you can even back brush a missed spot. Apply in raking light. Try to stick to horizontal surfaces. The build will be very slow, but you'll get a good finish on any wood after about 4-5 coats. Sand as necessary between coats.

If you pad, use a blue shop towel. Put a couple oz in a single serve yogurt cup. Fold a full shop towel in quarters. Dip the top half of this folded pad into the cup. Make airplane passes taking off and landing gently on your wood. Move across the piece swiftly. When you get to the bottom of the surface, start again at the top. Keep doing this until the surface STARTS to feel tacky and your towel doesn't glide. Then stop. Wait for an hour and begin again. Sand in between coats as necessary.

[Nathan Johnson]

Appreciate everyone's replies. Lots of helpful info.
I'll keep practicing.

[John TenEyck]

Guinness in can is that the same thing as duck in a can. Because it sounds gross

Either you hate Guinness or you are a snob or I'm a bumpkin because Guinness in the can that has the nitrogen cartridge tastes great to me.

John

[Andrew Hughes]

I’m just messing with you John.
I know what Guinness is but don’t drink alcohol I’ve been friends with Bill W for almost 30 years.
Sorry for not making it clear in my reply I honestly didn’t think you would take it seriously.
Good Luck Always

[Stan Calow]

Nathan, what kind of wood is it, and to what grit was it sanded before the shellac?

[Ed Gibbons]

Personally I think shellac is overrated. I have had challenges wiping, brushing, and spraying. I know some guys really like it but I don’t see any advantage.

[Mel Fulks]

"Secret decoder key" for shelac age Do you have to send "two box tops" ? When I was a kid the two box top thing
made me a cereal killer...and eater. Beer has weened me off the stuff

[John TenEyck]

I’m just messing with you John.
I know what Guinness is but don’t drink alcohol I’ve been friends with Bill W for almost 30 years.
Sorry for not making it clear in my reply I honestly didn’t think you would take it seriously.
Good Luck Always

I didn't take it seriously, Andrew; sorry my response was so aggressive. I might have had just a little too much - no not Guinness - wine last evening at a dinner party with my neighbors on the deck before I wrote that. I've never felt worse the morning after only half a bottle of wine either. I love good wine but if that's going to be the new norm for me I'll happily give it up. Getting old sucks.

John

[Curt Harms]

Probably best to say that shellac doesn't raise grain "much" because as you note the alcohol used to dissolve shellac isn't necessarily water free. That's why it's a best practice to give a few quick swipes with 320/400 paper or a synthetic pad after the first application of shellac as there will likely be some very minor fiber raising, depending on the wood species, to have a good, clean sealed surface for subsequent steps.

The situation is similar for when using alcohol soluble dyes...there will be a very slight grain raise, but nothing like when using water soluble dye.

I guess there's some grain raising but it ain't much. A few quick swipes is right for sanding, which is why I was annoyed with the guy who painted the stair rail without sanding it first. It would have only take a few minutes and would have looked/felt SO much better.

[Nathan Johnson]

Nathan, what kind of wood is it, and to what grit was it sanded before the shellac?

Sorry, late to my own party here.
Maple sanded to 220.
I then raised the grain and touched it with 320.