Shellac is stupid

[Nathan Johnson]

First try with shellac
Zinser clear, and I'm cutting with dna.
Tried a taklon brush and padding. I cannot lay down a consistent coat. Nothing but streaks or inconsistencies. I thought this was supposed to be easy, but it looks like a$$. Unacceptable.

HALP! Or I start over with GF HP satin.

[Mike Henderson]

I spray it on. Otherwise, I wipe it on with a rag but you only get one pass. If you go back over you'll mess it up (in general).

Mike

[Jim Becker]

Hand applying requires a very different motion and feel than other finishes like varnish, etc. Mike is correct that you put it on, one quick swipe and move on to the next area. You also want the thinnest coating possible with shellac...do not "build" it up like varnish. Applying shellac by hand is an "art form". And if you want to go to the extreme...learn how to French Polish.

I do brush shellac on small projects sometimes, but prefer to spray it, either from a can for utility on small things or via HVLP for larger things where I'm using it as a barrier coat.

[Nathan Johnson]

Thanks, fellas.
Seems there's a pretty decent learning curve with applying by hand. Honestly, I haven't been this frustrated in a while.

I think the start over with GF is the best approach. I can practice on scrap and not ruin this particular project.

[Andrew Hughes]

I agree with Jim and Mike. I would like to point out the stuff in a can doesn’t behave like fresh flakes mixed up the same day or night before. It does have its place for blocking odors in blind areas. You can slop it on it will do its thing and none would be the wiser.
But for fine work it doesn’t dry as hard and cannot be polished the same way as good old flakes.
Are there any youtubers mixing flakes or buttons. Seems like a lot Woodworkers trying out the can stuff. Only to be dissatisfied.
Nothing great comes in a can. Not shellac not cheese nothing!

[Nathan Johnson]

I appreciate you guys.
I am far from an expert, but I've used other finishes that have turned out fine and this is just awful.
I get that it's my method and I haven't dialed it in, but good grief.

[Prashun Patel]

I understand your frustration. IMHO, it's best to start with Zinsser Sealcoat. It's already thinned to a consistency that will allow you to wipe it, spray it or brush it.

Shellac, while a great finish itself, is very good as a barrier coat or a wash coat under other finishes or between dye / stain and a top coat. It's a worthwhile skill to develop.

That being said, I have come to feel shellac is best SPRAYED. If I were you, I'd get a cheap HVLP sprayer (Woodcraft, Rockler, Harbor Freight all sell variants of the same one). You can use this unit to spray shellac. AFter a session, you can spray a little bit of DNA through it just to clear out the nozzle. You will be able to use this same unit to spray waterbased or alcohol based dyes.

This will solve all of your problems - and will give you a way better looking finish than you can ever brush shellac (I'm not talking about french polishing).

If you choose to brush, you cannot back brush it or tip it off like varnish. You have to lay it down and let it be. If there are missed spots, you have to get them on your next coat. I get the best brush results by thinning sealcoat another 10% with isopropyl alcohol - not rubbing alcohol - pure IPA. This has a slower evap rate than ethanol and will allow the product to flow just a tiny bit better. If you are super quick, you can even back brush a missed spot. Apply in raking light. Try to stick to horizontal surfaces. The build will be very slow, but you'll get a good finish on any wood after about 4-5 coats. Sand as necessary between coats.

If you pad, use a blue shop towel. Put a couple oz in a single serve yogurt cup. Fold a full shop towel in quarters. Dip the top half of this folded pad into the cup. Make airplane passes taking off and landing gently on your wood. Move across the piece swiftly. When you get to the bottom of the surface, start again at the top. Keep doing this until the surface STARTS to feel tacky and your towel doesn't glide. Then stop. Wait for an hour and begin again. Sand in between coats as necessary.

[Nathan Johnson]

Appreciate everyone's replies. Lots of helpful info.
I'll keep practicing.

[Bruce King]

Check out this guys opinion on shellac
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.woodshopnews.com/.amp/columns-blogs/shellac-as-a-sealer-its-all-just-hype

[Stan Calow]

Bruce, that is an interesting link and I respect Bob Flexner. One thing he didn't mention was preventing blotching. I thought that was the main reason to use sealer (of any kind) on new work.
Also, I recall Homestead Finishing used to sell an additive for shellac that would reduce the ridging problem he mentions. Anyone ever use that successfully?

[John TenEyck]

I agree with Jim and Mike. I would like to point out the stuff in a can doesn’t behave like fresh flakes mixed up the same day or night before. It does have its place for blocking odors in blind areas. You can slop it on it will do its thing and none would be the wiser.
But for fine work it doesn’t dry as hard and cannot be polished the same way as good old flakes.
Are there any youtubers mixing flakes or buttons. Seems like a lot Woodworkers trying out the can stuff. Only to be dissatisfied.
Nothing great comes in a can. Not shellac not cheese nothing!

Guinness in those cans with the nitrogen cartridge comes pretty close to great. And Sealcoat shellac is a great product IMO, and it, too, comes in a can. I wipe it on, spray it on, and for small projects can even put it on with a brush.

John

[Nathan Johnson]

[/COLOR] Guinness in those cans with the nitrogen cartridge comes pretty close to great. And Sealcoat shellac is a great product IMO, and it, too, comes in a can. I wipe it on, spray it on, and for small projects can even put it on with a brush.

John

Ok, so what am I doing wrong?
It has to be something. I can put an oil-based poly on and its fine.
This shellac looks like hell. What's the trick?

[Andrew Seemann]

Shellac is a wonderful finish. Once you get the hang of it, you may prefer it; I know I do.

However, if you are used to solvent varnishes and wiping oils, it can be frustrating at first. For varnish, you have a few minutes to brush it out, for shellac, you have seconds. The alcohol flashes off very quickly. You can't go over something you brushed or wiped 20 seconds ago; the alcohol is already half gone and the finish part dry. For true french polishing, the rag is actually oiled to keep it from sticking to the partially dry shellac.

I usually brush or wipe it on, although I need to learn to spray it one of these days. It sands out very nicely, so a super even coat isn't always necessary. The secret is to work very quickly, and not to go over things that are already part dry except where you have to (like joining in your current brushload with something you did earlier in that coat). It can be challenging at first to to a large area, like a table top. Also, it won't level out like a oil poly, so you just try to put it on evenly and clean it up with abrasive if necessary.

Also, while SealCoat can often be used directly from the can as it is a 2 pound cut, the regular blonde and orange are 3 pound cuts, and really too thick to be used straight from the can. Mixing them with about an equal part of alcohol will make them much friendlier.

Fresh shellac from a can is just fine. It does degrade over time though. Supposedly it is good for 2 years, but I avoid using anything older than 1 year, unless I am putting a slop coat on shop furniture or fixtures. If I am doing "fine" work, I typically pick up a new can of SealCoat for that project, unless I have new stuff on had. Somewhere on Zissner's site is the secret decoder key to their date codes.

[Nathan Johnson]

Shellac is a wonderful finish. Once you get the hang of it, you may prefer it; I know I do.

However, if you are used to solvent varnishes and wiping oils, it can be frustrating at first. For varnish, you have a few minutes to brush it out, for shellac, you have seconds. The alcohol flashes off very quickly. You can't go over something you brushed or wiped 20 seconds ago; the alcohol is already half gone and the finish part dry. For true french polishing, the rag is actually oiled to keep it from sticking to the partially dry shellac.

I usually brush or wipe it on, although I need to learn to spray it one of these days. It sands out very nicely, so a super even coat isn't always necessary. The secret is to work very quickly, and not to go over things that are already part dry except where you have to (like joining in your current brushload with something you did earlier in that coat). It can be challenging at first to to a large area, like a table top. Also, it won't level out like a oil poly, so you just try to put it on evenly and clean it up with abrasive if necessary.

Also, while SealCoat can often be used directly from the can as it is a 2 pound cut, the regular blonde and orange are 3 pound cuts, and really too thick to be used straight from the can. Mixing them with about an equal part of alcohol will make them much friendlier.

Fresh shellac from a can is just fine. It does degrade over time though. Supposedly it is good for 2 years, but I avoid using anything older than 1 year, unless I am putting a slop coat on shop furniture or fixtures. If I am doing "fine" work, I typically pick up a new can of SealCoat for that project, unless I have new stuff on had. Somewhere on Zissner's site is the secret decoder key to their date codes.

So, I get that it'll be hard to diagnose through words, but....what am I doing wrong?
Zinser clear....I cut it with dna in a Mason jar. Either taklon brush or with a wiping pad, I couldn't get even coverage apparently. After numerous coats I still had an unacceptable finish that never seemed to blend together.
I would wipe on a pass and then back, then overlapping strokes. Small shelf is all I was doing.... 20" long by 5 1/2" wide. Edges seemed okay, faces were a disaster.

[Andrew Hughes]

Thin coats that’s what works the best. Slowly build 15 or more coats is normal but you have to thin it. I don’t measure I just use simple test a drop on my finger it should be dry before I touch it with another finger.
But then again I mix my own flakes from the shellac shack. It dries fast and it’s also sand able and won’t corn up paper like the can shellac.
I make a folded pad and wipe it with the grain. But there’s other ways.
Lots of guys use shellac under other finishes not me. But I have use to control blotchy fir panels that need to be stained.
If you can get canned shellac to work your going to love mixing it fresh.