Why would you care what someone else pays for something? Those "ignorant dopes" might have similar thoughts about the vehicle you drive or the house you live in.Originally Posted by Frank Pratt
John
Contributor
Why would you care what someone else pays for something? Those "ignorant dopes" might have similar thoughts about the vehicle you drive or the house you live in.
John
Contributor
"Live edge" isn't a type of lumber, it's a term describing a style of furniture. I agree most of the stuff being sold out their by these "puppy mills" is pure junk, or at best side planks. On the bright side, those of us still around in twenty years will have access to lots of unrefined walnut boads when all this junk hits the curb.
Member
Sure it’s a type of lumber. It’s the type sold to the uninitiated for dramatically shameful prices. I don’t begrudge the Amish folk or whoever for taking advantage. Hard currency is hard currency. Pity is the achievements and work/style of giants in this field as discussed in this thread are unfortunately diluted or diminished by the current fad. When one can get “live edge” shelf kits at the borgs, it’s jumped the shark. Saw an aisle festooned with the stuff. Just shook my head and kept moving.
Member
I went to a great deal of trouble learning to make a properly dressed edge. I feel much the same way about this "approach" as I did regarding "Shabby chic", and jigsaw silhouettes leaning against trees.
Moderator
Anecdotally, I hear few stories of novices who buy overpriced slabs, and more about novices who come into some free lumber because their neighbor cut up a huge tree. So they have a slab of something that needs to be dried and processed. Half the time they want to make a “cookie slice” table.
Contributor
The price they pay for ugly lumber influences the price I have to pay for better lumber in a negative way.
Last edited by Jon Grider; 09-06-2020 at 8:30 AM.
Moderator
There's a difference between often poor quality but expensive natural/live edge material scattered along the road and well executed live/natural edge furniture. The latter is a style that some folks appreciate with one of the most notable makers and "wood philosophers", George Nakashima being revered. But it's not for everyone. A lot of the buyers and sellers of the former are not necessarily woodworkers like the majority of folks here at SMC. I personally don't buy stuff from along the road. I have a client who does and I've had to "school" him about things like moisture content, wood movement and so forth when he's buying for furniture. It matters less for small things like charcuterie boards where the gnarly stuff he chooses is thinner and generally drier.
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The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...
Contributor
Interesting thing I recently saw , " vacuum kiln dried " roubo bench kits sold by Matt Cremona . The process got 6 - 7 inch blanks down to 7% moisture level in a week , which would have taken years normally . He is just getting going with it but he is moving them all so far . His main focus had been slabs / live edge , which continues . But something new to me I hadn't seen , thought it was neat .
Contributor
New to me but I wonder if the internal stresses are stabilized sufficiently. Time will tell, I guess.
Rustic? Well, no. That was not my intention!
Contributor
Yes, that seems typical.
My youngest daughter almost had a stroke when she saw the trailer load of wane that I had cut off of boards when milling some logs.
She thought I had thrown out the valuable part.....Rod
Contributor
Matt shows in a video the blanks are in a "press" during the drying process , so they come out straight and flat . Time will tell , indeed .
Contributor
Because they are the ones that are driving lumber prices way up, which is great for the guys selling, not so much for the guys buying.
My use of the word "ignorant" was referring to the lack of knowledge about lumber qualities, drying, movement, etc. Not meant as a derogatory term. However, "dope" was meant to be derogatory because so often the projects built with these planks show a desire to make something that is trendy, yet using none of the methods that will yield a quality product.
As with most things, it's more nuanced than "the customer is a dope" and "hey, if they can charge it and get away w/ it, more power to them". I don't idolize people that can sell something to a new user at an over priced rate. That's lame.
All of us buyers buy stuff we know nothing about. We expect the seller to be fair and to explain the product / service and pricing. I don't know where this infatuation came from to idolize people that knowingly take advantage from others came from, but I'm well over it. It seems that many of our American population think that way. Odd to me, because my immediate reaction is disgust. I find it very strange that people make money off the backs of the ignorant and congratulate themselves.
Contributor
I haven't seen that in my area. Lumber for the most part is cheap. Poplar is less than $2, soft maple maybe $2.50, hard maple and red oak in the $3 range, white oak is around $4 and $5 for QS. These prices have not changed much in 5 years which covers the live edge fad.
As far as being a "dope" most of us started not knowing much, so I guess I was a dope, too, in the beginning. But who am I to criticize someone who wants to buy a piece of live edge wood to put some shelves on their wall as a design statement, or a slab to make a coffee table. The fact that they are willing to buy a piece of wood and try to turn it into something of value to them, even if only as a fashion trend, is to be commended in my book. It's not an insult to Nakashima or anyone who makes "real furniture" any more than it is for you or me to tackle a home plumbing project rather than hiring a "real" plumber. Some will fail and some will succeed, and some may go on to become more accomplished woodworkers. Who knows, some might even join SMC and ask for advise when they decide to build a Philadelphia highboy in a few years. We should be helping people that want to use wood, not criticizing them for their lack of knowledge.
John
Contributor
I would like it if more people would do a little research on wood drying, what a board foot is, and so forth before they came to buy lumber from me. I figure if they're online they must have access to that information, and sometimes I get tired of trying to explain this stuff. Especially since I am far from being an expert myself.
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