Powermatic E-16 vs 160 Planer vintages: Pro's/Con's/Comparison?

[Devin Brenan]

Looking for anyone that owns or owned either an E-16 or a 160 (or preferably both)...or just folks that could discuss the differences aside from the obvious visual ones.

I know the E-16 had a shorter production run and to avoid any Houdaille-merger machines on later 180/221/225's.....not sure if there are any 160's of that flavor though.

Regardless, I want the machines with the POWERMATIC logo cast into the front.

Would welcome any info or opinions you have.

Cheers,

Devin

[David Kumm]

Go over to owwm.org. There are PM fans over there. Dave

[John P Clark]

Dave;

I own a 180, which is the same as the 160, just two inches wider. I have owned/used for the last ten years and have put a Byrd head in the planer, what do you want to know? Mine was made in 1965, and has Powermatic in the front casting

[Devin Brenan]

Go over to owwm.org. There are PM fans over there. Dave

Lol, well then. I take it you're an Oliver 299/399 supporter for older planers? I'd be happy to own one of those but am looking for a belt drive version and have only come across one 299-V for sale in over a year. Powermatics have been less expensive and much more common in belt-drive versions in my shopping adventures. And yep, also have a similar post over at owwm.

[Devin Brenan]

Dave;

I own a 180, which is the same as the 160, just two inches wider. I have owned/used for the last ten years and have put a Byrd head in the planer, what do you want to know? Mine was made in 1965, and has Powermatic in the front casting

Nice, was mainly interested in the differences between the E-16 and later-model 160, but now that you mention it:

--Anything you DON'T like about it or wish you could change?
--What size motor do you have on there...if it's smaller, how does it deal with the Byrd head?
--Direct drive or belt drive?
--Assuming you installed the Shelix head in there yourself, how much of a pain was that...time-wise?

Thanks,
Devin

[Kevin Jenness]

I'm not familiar with the E-16 but I do have a 5hp belt-drive PM160. Mine has the on-board grinder. With a 10 degree face bevel on the knives it does a decent job with figured woods. Adjusting the pressure bar is finicky after grinding, which would be obviated with a segmented head. I find I do have to keep the pressure bar and chipbreaker as well as the bed waxed for good feeding. The 5hp motor is plenty with the straight knives. Just for laughs, the machine has a safety decal warning against taking off more than 1/2". Never tried that...

[Matt Day]

Dave Kumm is saying to go to OWWM because they specialize in old machinery. Here there are some of us who love old machinery, but we’re in the minority. This kind of question will get you much better information at OWWM.

[John P Clark]

Nice, was mainly interested in the differences between the E-16 and later-model 160, but now that you mention it:

--Anything you DON'T like about it or wish you could change?
--What size motor do you have on there...if it's smaller, how does it deal with the Byrd head?
--Direct drive or belt drive?
--Assuming you installed the Shelix head in there yourself, how much of a pain was that...time-wise?

Thanks,
Devin

The machine came with a 3 hp 3 ph motor, and at the time my shop did not have 3 ph so I put a new 5 hp baldor motor on the planer. It works great with the shelix head. Any thing I would change is to get a bigger planer and now that I have 3 ph, a larger motor.

Mine is belt drive and it is built like a tank, a very heavy machine, not to be moved. I was lucky in that it was old but had a head for dust collection.

The shelix was a couple of hours to put in, went very easy, just have to take it apart, but not bad. I saved the original head and still have it in my shop somewhere. I bought it with new bearings, so I did not have to press any bearing on.

about the only bad thing about it is you have more maintenance than a new planer, about every month takes about an hour to grease the machine

[David Kumm]

Yes, I wasn't dissing PM, I just don't have experience with them. There are lots of owwm guys that are deep into the details of the PM planers. The E16 is a pretty early model and condition is everything. PM were known as roughing planers. Not that they weren't capable of finish work, but those not in schools tended to be used hard and put away wet. Look for wear in the middle of the table and the middle of the chip breakers. Onboard grinders are great and add at least $500 to the value of the machine. If you plan to swap the head, check the pricing for various PM model heads as they may differ enough that makes one machine a better value for the swap. Dave

[Devin Brenan]

I'm not familiar with the E-16 but I do have a 5hp belt-drive PM160. Mine has the on-board grinder. With a 10 degree face bevel on the knives it does a decent job with figured woods. Adjusting the pressure bar is finicky after grinding, which would be obviated with a segmented head. I find I do have to keep the pressure bar and chipbreaker as well as the bed waxed for good feeding. The 5hp motor is plenty with the straight knives. Just for laughs, the machine has a safety decal warning against taking off more than 1/2". Never tried that...

Kevin,

Thanks for the info and the wax-advice. And yea...i've seen the 1/2" limit advertised in a few of the old manuals. Sweet Jeebus. 3 passes and a 2x4 is GONE...or...launched backward is an 80mph murder spear.

[Devin Brenan]

Yes, I wasn't dissing PM, I just don't have experience with them. There are lots of owwm guys that are deep into the details of the PM planers. The E16 is a pretty early model and condition is everything. PM were known as roughing planers. Not that they weren't capable of finish work, but those not in schools tended to be used hard and put away wet. Look for wear in the middle of the table and the middle of the chip breakers. Onboard grinders are great and add at least $500 to the value of the machine. If you plan to swap the head, check the pricing for various PM model heads as they may differ enough that makes one machine a better value for the swap. Dave

Ah I gotcha. Just the way I read it I suppose. And thanks for the pointers...i'll bring a straightedge and a feeler gauge set to check for a center-cupped tables for sure. I do plan to swap the head out (Byrd or Hermance if their lead time decreases) and am actually hoping to tackle a full restoration (full breakdown) with whatever I buy, just as a project for fun and to learn. I don't need the planer to work right away; bonus and will pay higher price if it does. I will pay a pro if/when/where I get stuck on the restoration.

[Devin Brenan]

The machine came with a 3 hp 3 ph motor, and at the time my shop did not have 3 ph so I put a new 5 hp baldor motor on the planer. It works great with the shelix head. Any thing I would change is to get a bigger planer and now that I have 3 ph, a larger motor.

Mine is belt drive and it is built like a tank, a very heavy machine, not to be moved. I was lucky in that it was old but had a head for dust collection.

The shelix was a couple of hours to put in, went very easy, just have to take it apart, but not bad. I saved the original head and still have it in my shop somewhere. I bought it with new bearings, so I did not have to press any bearing on.

about the only bad thing about it is you have more maintenance than a new planer, about every month takes about an hour to grease the machine

John,

Copy that and thanks for the reply. Yea I am limited to 5hp (max) single phase for my current shop. Good to hear you're happy with the Shelix. This is gonna sound like a dumb question, but why do you want to upgrade in size? larger glue-ups? slabs? or for speed with a segmented infeed for multiple pieces at once? It's looking like I'm going to have to move in the next year or so and I wanted to start 'small'.

For your grease/lube routine, is that something the manual clearly points out? What's your routine?

Thanks.