Woodworking for a living

[Stan Calow]

Hobbyist here. Didn't somebody do a poll here once to see the percentages of pro vs hobbyist?

[Jack Frederick]

So many excellent comments. Retired now, Hobbyist, self employed for 40+ yrs. I couldn't keep a job. So many times I have heard that, "Work at something you love and you will never work another day in your life." That may be so, but it is also true that, "Nothing can cure a passion for something faster than having to make a living at it." You need to have the business chops or you can chase your tail around, work like h*** and have nothing. You can do that with the chops too. Many of the posters here identified a specific target market, banjos, ships, etc and have developed success. Note I do not say "found" success. It is one thing to make it, but you have to be able to get it to market. It...is...not...easy! I have a great shop and excellent tools all paid for by receipts from my business not related to my hobby.

[Andrew Seemann]

I'm a full timer. IMO, all the best set-ups are owned by hobbiests. As said earlier, it's harder to justify nice things when ROI is the primary purpose.

I can relate to this. My mother's side of the family has a small retail greenhouse business, fairly well known for high quality plants. As far as our equipment goes, any fine gardening snob worth their hand-forged trowel would leave nearly anything we have on the side of the road. It is a competitive, low margin industry, and it is hard to justify top of the line when good enough works as well and as long in practice. Knowing how to use your equipment matters a lot more than its price and status level.

[Bruce King]

Back when my Wife worked as a Nurse we went to several parties at Drs houses, they had some really unique furniture. I would ask where they got some of the pieces and it was, we had this shipped from Europe and I had a friend make this.... Wish I had a picture of that piece the friend made, it was beyond awesome, a demilune I think it was.

[Bruce King]

I can relate to this. My mother's side of the family has a small retail greenhouse business, fairly well known for high quality plants. As far as our equipment goes, any fine gardening snob worth their hand-forged trowel would leave nearly anything we have on the side of the road. It is a competitive, low margin industry, and it is hard to justify top of the line when good enough works as well and as long in practice. Knowing how to use your equipment matters a lot more than its price and status level.

I agree, with sharp blades and good alignment you can do fine work with 4K to 6k of new equipment or 3k to 4K of used equip, and some highly skilled woodworkers with lots of time on their hands can do it for much less.

[J.R. Rutter]

Close to 20 years of full time woodworking. Fortunately, was able to buy a lot of nice equipment during the housing bubble years...

[Will Blick]

Some great posts...
I think ww in the not too distant past, say 25-75 yrs ago, consisted of a lot of cabinets and some custom furniture and built ins.

With imports, CNC machines, IKEA, much of this work is no longer left for the small shop owner. This leaves a lot of ww's with no easy market for their skills.
The last kitchen I did on a flip... I bought IKEA cabinets.. they fully designed the job for $300, made a complete list of every component, and had the stuff delivered the next day. It was RTA, and the quality was not bad at all...the finish was like a white piano finish. A task only a robot could do and come out this nice... It would have taken me 10 hrs per door to match that finish , and even then, mine would be inferior. Its like an auto manufacturer paint job vs. a local shop working in a rented warehouse.

When talking with the IKEA designer, I asked him what their market is in SCal, he said everything... while my flip was a small condo, he said we do everything from small jobs such as this, and many $10M house remodels. It took the wind out of me, he had no reason to lie. IKEA has their own SCal cabinet building center to service the market, its that fruitful for them. As for me, if I was to build that same kitchen myself, my wage would have been under $3 hr for sure to match their price. Part of this is my high cost of materials vs. theirs. As others have mentioned, it seems "good enough" often wins today. that 1/10th of the 1% is a tiny market.

Some good advise on finding niche markets like Jims Trunks. Built-ins are always in demand, but as that video link did a great job mentioning... the avg person has a hard time digesting the cost of truly custom made pieces. Its such a time consuming process...specially dealing with customers! Sometimes u spend more hours with them, then you do building the piece!

When I lived in Vegas area, I noticed the LDS community, similar to Amish in how tight knit they are, dominated wood working. They paid kids zero (working for God) and worked them like dogs... they put lots of cabinet shops out of business. It was amazing with their high tech CNC's all lined up, just how many kitchens they can pump out in a month. When I toured their factory, I was just blown away. Amazing efficiency with super low labor costs, maybe less than over seas.

The barriers of entry into ww is just too low, many can enter, then automation / mass production has changed the game over the past 25 yrs. I personally would never try to sell commissioned pieces. I do like the idea of perfecting a few products and marketing them, as you might become highly efficient at making the same product over and over. I might try that after life gives me an opportunity to catch my breath.

[Patrick Kane]

I have a well equipped hobbyist shop paid for by a few years of commissions, flipping machines, reselling lumber etc. I can’t say i was ever tempted to quit the day job and enter this field as a profession. It’s a different/fulfilling way to make some side bucks, but that’s all it will ever be to me. I have a few more jobs in my future so I can save up for a larger shop with my opinion of “the best” equipment. To an extent, I think some of the pros are right that hobbyists care more about the machines than pros. I’m guilty of that. However, I’ve seen enough IRS auctions to know plenty of shops were/are running very expensive altendorf/Martin sliders, everything with tigerstops, massive widebelts, and every other expensive goodie you can think of. The top shelf stuff isn’t only for wealthy hobbyists, but you better be a busy high end shop to justify the $50,000 sliding saw. All of that said, I’ve never personally see a contemporary Martin product in the wild. All the local cabinet/woodworking shops I’ve visited locally are running 30 year old holz her or scmi etc.

[andy bessette]

Since this thread has become as much about the machinery I'll share what I have in my own shop.

My primary table saw is a Unisaw with carbide combination blade and Laguna sliding table. A second Unisaw wears a carbide rip blade. A contractors saw wears a 1/2" carbide dado. And fourth is an incredibly heavy and ancient Sears tilting table saw with a 4" thin kerf carbide blade. Adjacent to my primary table saw is a Craftsman radial arm saw with carbide blade that is used solely for 90 degree cuts, an indispensable machine.

Also you will find a 10" General International jointer with helical carbide cutterhead, a 13" Delta thickness plane, 16" MiniMax bandsaw (usually with 1/4" blade), 20" Agazzani bandsaw with 1" carbide blade, Delta variable speed jigsaw, Delta shaper, Performax 22/44 drum sander, mobile Delta dust collector, stationary Delta belt/disc sander, Wilton belt/disc sander, 24" State disc sander, Max and Ryobi spindle sanders, 2 Delta floor model drill presses, Chicago benchtop drill press, 3-1/2 hp custom table mounted Stanley router, Emglo portable air compressor, 60-gallon Porter-Cable vertical air compressor, more.

Among the metal working machines are an Index Super 55 milling machine, 12" x 35" Logan lathe, Baldor floor model carbide grinder, 7" x 10" Vectrax vertical/horizontal mitering bandsaw, 18" Vectrax vertical bandsaw, Miller Dynasty 200DX tig welder, Miller 211 mig welder, Hypertherm plasma cutter, 50-ton Carolina hydraulic press, JD-Square Model 32 electro-hydraulic tube bender, more.

The basic shop occupies an area the size of 2 double garages in tandem. Plus there is a connected storage room roughly the size of a single garage.

[Derek Cohen]

I visited a pro wood shop the other day. I was looking for laminated high pressure MDF for a router table top, and hoping for a cut off. The owner/sole woodworker was a really nice guy, in his 50s, very friendly and, when I told him what the MDF was for, he walked me around his shop and showed me all his machines. The machines were nothing special ... for a hobby woodworker such as myself. In fact, my machines by far outstripped his in quality and ability. I did not say what I had. We purchase according to a different set of rules.

It was clear to me that what he had was all what he needed to have. His machines did the job. What more does one need?

In my day job I am a shrink. I have been building all sort of things since I was a young child. I work with my head and I play with my hands. I have re-built cars, built and re-built surfboards and windsurfers. I just like building. I also like tools. I have been building furniture for 30 or more years. My focus is on technique, but that does not stop me enjoyng the tools as well.

The attention I give to the tools of woodworking is nothing like the attention I give to the tools of my day job. In my profession, I am loath to spend money unnecessarily. Unnecessary expenses reduce income unnecessarily. New graduates seem to want to purchase all the gee-jaws. In part, I think that this makes them feel equipped for all eventualities. It is a factor of insecurity borne from inexperience. They have not been practicing long enough to know what is important to have and what is not.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Osvaldo Cristo]

I'm a full timer. IMO, all the best set-ups are owned by hobbiests. As said earlier, it's harder to justify nice things when ROI is the primary purpose.

I fully agree you.

Fancy woodshop usually belongs to hobbyists with lots of disposable money and some youtubers, a.k.a. "paid influencers".

Professional ones usually are way more "frugal" in order to get ROI and maintain competitive.

[William Hodge]

This is an interesting thread. It has made me think about what I do for work and entertainment.

The tomatoes and zucchini I grow certainly do not pay their way. I spend a few minutes every day composting, weeding, and watering. If the hours were billable, the price per pound would be crazy. However, going out before dinner to pick stuff to cook is worth it to me.

It sounds like people making things out of wood for enjoyment are more Artisans than Hobbyists. Artisans care most about how thing look and work, rather than what the profit was. As a professional, I want to meet customer expectations and make money. I don't care if I like what I'm making. When I started in woodworking, I wanted to make furniture out of Fine Woodworking. Seven years later, when there was a recession, and I had two young kids, I realized I would be perfectly happy making toothpicks.

One difference between Artisans,Hobbyists, and Professionals is the benches. It seems like the hobbyists have the fanciest benches, neatest shops, and chairs.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

You can do that with the chops too. Many of the posters here identified a specific target market, banjos, ships, etc and have developed success. Note I do not say "found" success. It is one thing to make it, but you have to be able to get it to market. It...is...not...easy!

Well said!

[Will Blick]

As the saying goes...
you have a better chance of success

selling a mediocre product with GREAT marketing...
vs
a GREAT product with mediocre marketing....

ww does not change the rules of whats required for business success.....

[David Sochar]

Fiddler since 5 yrs old. Professional since 1971. Started Acorn Woodworks 1990.

Currently with one employee. I have had as many as 6 in the shop, 3 in the office.

At one point, we filled 9,000s/f doing architectural work.

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