School me on cabinet paint

[Jerrod Lollis]

I am looking for help from anybody who has extensive experience with finishing/refinishing kitchen cabinets. I do a lot of cabinet painting (spray of course) and have typically use water-based finishes like acrylic or enamel. I have recently purchased a new HVLP spray rig and want to transition to lacquer or something similar. However, I didn’t realize how many different options there were for coatings in this area. I am familiar with precat lacquer and that is about it. I have been researching Sherwin-Williams and have no clue what some of these other finishes are. Nitrocellulose, conversion varnishes etc. Can someone please throw some knowledge my way.

Also, I figured I should probably throw this part in to clear up any questions. I am a contractor and do this type of thing for a living, among others. I have finished hundreds of kitchens through my previous methods with fantastic results. I also have extensive experience with high end automotive body work and paint, so I am not worried about the prep or spray process whatsoever. I’m just unsure of the differences between all of these finish types. Any help would be greatly welcomed.

[John TenEyck]

If you have finished that many kitchens with fantastic results why would you want to change anything? Is it just to reduce a little material usage by switching to HVLP? From?

In any case, if you do this for a living then you would likely benefit from developing a relationship with one or two suppliers, like maybe ML Campbell, or ChemCraft, but Sherwin Williams has a complete line of products, too. You need to start talking with the sales/tech. reps to get educated on products that will offer a benefit to your work. For the volume of product you likely consume I would think it should be pretty easy to get them to come see you.

John

[Jerrod Lollis]

There are a couple reasons why I’m wanting to change my method. Cost of material really has nothing to do with this decision. I have always been of the mindset that I would rather pay a little more for something to have a better result, even if that means that I have to absorb the cost on my bottom line. I’m pretty confident that by switching to a lacquer or something similar I can get a little bit closer to a true factory finish. I have also always been slightly concerned with the overall durability of water-based finishes. I am hoping that by switching I can make this almost a non-issue. I am regularly in a situation where I am bidding kitchens 2 ways; Replace all the cabinets completely with new, or refinish the existing. What I’m ultimately trying to do is close the quality gap between cabinets finished in a factory setting and my cabinets refinished on site. I live in Phoenix, and there is a pretty heavy market for cabinet refinishing here, especially with all the Fixin flips. And, with everybody who owns a spray rig now doing this, I’m hoping this will step me up above everybody else.

[Jim Becker]

So here's the thing....if you're doing a lot of refinishing and those cabinet boxes are "in the home", you're going to want to stick with waterborne finishes for safety. The solvent based products require serious PPE and a serious work environment to spray safely. (and legally since you're a business and there are regulations involved)

There are a number of products that are well suited to cabinet work from multiple manufacturers that are waterborne for safety and also appropriate for the kitchen environment including cleaning chemicals. I'll use Target Coatings as an example because that's what I most often use. Their EM8000cv is a conversion varnish type finish and adding their crosslinker increases the chemical resistance. For colors, I tend to use Target's EM6500 tinted to whatever BM or SW color is desired and then top coat with the EM8000CV afterward. Benjamin Moore Advance is a popular waterborne product for cabinets...it's a emulsified alkyd enamel and very durable. It does take a bit longer to cure than most waterbornes, however, because of its nature. General Finishes Milk Paint (which isn't "milk paint"; rather, it's an acrylic) sprays well and can be top coated with compatible products for greater durability. Etc.

[Jerrod Lollis]

Thanks so much for the help. I’m going to go ahead and apologize in advance because I’m going to ask you some follow up questions that are probably way more complicated than what I’m expecting. I’m planing on using a Sherwin-Williams product, not for financial reasons, but because I have a good working relationship and I’m confident I will get better service, attention etc., unless their products in this area don’t hold up. That being said, I’m including a link to their website showing all of their “cabinet grade finishes”. How do the products you mentioned in your previous post equate to what Sherwin-Williams has? I understand your concern had to do with the VOCs of lacquer and the sorts. What type of product should I be looking for? Nitro cellulose? acrylic polyurethane? Basically, I am trying to find a product that will give me a finish as close to factory sprayed as I can achieve in the field. Thanks so much for the help.

https://industrial.sherwin-williams.com/content/sherwin-williams/pcg/industrial-sw-com/na/us/en/industrial-wood/catalog/category/products-by-industry/kitchen-cabinetry/pigmented-wood-topcoats.10656726.html

[John TenEyck]

Of the SW's products at your link, the two component Sayerlack Premium Poly Topcoat is probably the most durable. However, it's a solvent based product; not one I'd want to be spraying on site, nor anywhere unless I had a solvents rated spray booth. But if your main concern is the appearance of the finish as much as the performance, then any of them will probably give you a factory quality finish if you can spray it well, and that likely includes the products you currently use. Of course some products spray more easily than others, but the spray equipment and person using it are often the deciding factor in how it looks. Talk with your SW Tech. Rep. and see what they recommend.

John

[Tony Joyce]

Thanks so much for the help. I’m going to go ahead and apologize in advance because I’m going to ask you some follow up questions that are probably way more complicated than what I’m expecting. I’m planing on using a Sherwin-Williams product, not for financial reasons, but because I have a good working relationship and I’m confident I will get better service, attention etc., unless their products in this area don’t hold up. That being said, I’m including a link to their website showing all of their “cabinet grade finishes”. How do the products you mentioned in your previous post equate to what Sherwin-Williams has? I understand your concern had to do with the VOCs of lacquer and the sorts. What type of product should I be looking for? Nitro cellulose? acrylic polyurethane? Basically, I am trying to find a product that will give me a finish as close to factory sprayed as I can achieve in the field. Thanks so much for the help.

https://industrial.sherwin-williams.com/content/sherwin-williams/pcg/industrial-sw-com/na/us/en/industrial-wood/catalog/category/products-by-industry/kitchen-cabinetry/pigmented-wood-topcoats.10656726.html

Interesting think about the Sherwin Williams web site. It's almost impossible to find the products or info on the items I use. But i do love their products and service.

That said, I have over forty years experience finishing cabinets and furniture. New only, I don't do any refinishing. I probably use about a 100 gallons of product a year(semi-retired). I've only been using SW products for the last 10-15 years. Previously I used small independent suppliers. No consistency in products. In this area(Piedmont NC) we have about three local branches(less than 50 miles away) that specialize in cabinet & furniture finish products. My local branch is 30 miles away. I text my salesman my order sometimes I pickup or they deliver. One of my favorite things about SW is they will color match any color for no extra cost. Pricing seems very competitive and reasonable.

The products I use are listed below. They may or may not work well for you. I'm pretty sure they are all KCMA approved.
The only minor issues(over 1 yr out) we have had are customer related(water abuse).

Clears:
T77F38 Pre-cat lacquer
T75F18 CAB-Acrylic
Colors & white:
P65W4 Vinyl Primer Surfacer (fills and sands extremely well)
P63W2 White Vinyl Sealer for white & color matches

White and colored primers are top coated with clears.

My experiences and my opinions, yours may vary.

[John TenEyck]

Sherwin Williams has a pretty easy to use product search function. These all are in the Industrial Wood Coatings section:


T77F38 Percat lacquer: https://industrial.sherwin-williams....type=datasheet

T75F18 CAB-Acrylic: https://industrial.sherwin-williams....type=datasheet

P65W4 Vinyl Primer Surfacer: https://industrial.sherwin-williams....type=datasheet

P63W2: https://industrial.sherwin-williams....type=datasheet


John

[Tony Joyce]

Search functions for these products must have been added in the last couple of months. It has not worked in the past.

[Scott Holmes]

Here's the best waterborne finish I have ever used... Sherwin Williams Kem Aqua-Plus It's not usually available at the regular SW paint stores you need to purchase it through their Chemical Coating division... I found this when I got the contract to do some repair work at a national restaurant. They have their own SW custom wiping stain color and this was spec'd for the clear coat. Ive done many kitchens and bathrooms with it since 2009. It's KCMA certified and a pleasure to use... it's Spray only!

https://industrial.sherwin-williams....r.9198017.html

[Jim Becker]

I tried the Kem Aqua-Plus, Scott, and it would not lay down. I had to abandon it mid-project, level sand and go back to Target's EM8000cv to get an acceptable result. I later tried some GF Extender in it and it helped, but by that time, the ship had sailed. Actually, it was a kitchen "continent" (island top)...

[John TenEyck]

Scott, aren't you using an AAA spray rig? I know you have lauded how nice Kem Aqua Plus is, but my results were consistent with Jim's; just about impossible to spray well with our HVLP guns. I couldn't get it to flow out for beans until I finally added 3 - 4% of GF's Extender to it. Wow, what a difference. It almost became my favorite thing to spray after I did that. But out of the can it doesn't play friendly with a common HVLP gun.

John

[Jerrod Lollis]

For those using the Chem Aqua Plus, can this be tinted? I’ve been researching on their website and can’t find anything about it being tinted a color other than the white that it comes in. The cabinets I’m prepping now are going to be gray.

[Jim Becker]

Not Chem Aqua Plus...Target EM6500 tinted to Benjamin Moore steel grey on the uppers...top coated with EM8000cv.

[Scott Holmes]

Yes, I use an Air Assisted Airless. I have used the Kem-Aqua Plus with my other sprayers and I don't have any trouble. I usually thin it 3-5% with the SW reducer. Last project was bathroom cabinets for my house... wife picked the color; SW mixed it up to the color she wanted... done and done.