Hollow mortising question

[Alex Zeller]

I can see a floor model hollow chisel mortiser in my future so I've been reading up. I'll be using it mainly for making chairs so a tilting table seams like it would be useful (vs making a wedge). I've passed on a couple of Powermatic 719T used machines because they only tilt side to side. Grizzly (G0840) and Beiliegh (MC-1000TT) mortisers have the table tilting front to back as well as tilting side to side. They look like they come from the same factory. But they only use 3/4" shank chisels. When reading up Lee valley premium chisels came up often but the smaller ones have 5/8" shanks. Does anyone make an adapter?

Is 5/8" a common size for premium chisels 1/2" and smaller? I could get a bore reducing bushing for a pulley but they don't have a "head" on them so the part of the chisel that hits the mortiser when it bottoms out and takes the force when pushing it into the wood may not be large enough to catch the 3/4" opening. It's only 1/16" on each side so it could work.

Here's a reducing bushing.
s-l1600.jpg

This is a picture of the bushing for the Powermatic.

[Mark e Kessler]

The powermatic premium are 3/4, I believe bothe the powermatic and the lee valley are both made by star m in Japan

[Bobby Robbinett]

I bought a used Oliver 94D at an auction for under $500. It is in excellent shape but I still plan to tear it apart and rebuild it. Mine has the foot pedal that lowers the chisel into the workpiece. If it were me I would look for an old Oliver or similar. You can often find them cheap and with some TLC and refurbishing you would have a great setup for less than a new Powermatic 719.

[Alex Zeller]

Grizzly sells Japanese ones as well that are 3/4" but they don't say the brand name. If the Powermatic ones are good quality then that's good. I just don't want to limit myself.

I've looked at a few "old iron" but they were too old. Both had parts that broke with one being welded to repair it and the other still being used as is. Both had very old motors and were 3 phase. There's times when I like older tools and putting work into them and other times I just want to have something that just works. If the right used mortiser turns up for sale within a reasonable distance I'm sure I would look into it. But I'm kind of looking for something that isn't going to take up too much room as it could end up sitting in a corner for months on end until I need it. I'm really more in the trying to decide what I really want phase.

[Bill Dufour]

Slip a washer on the drill shank?
Bill D

[Mark e Kessler]

I believe the Grizzly, Powermatic and Lee Valley are all star m which I believe are made by Nakahshi and is their standard line, i think there are better but don’t know if it really matters. I have the Powermatics and out of the box they were pretty good but still needed tuning. Out of the three I would trust the Lee Valley before the Grizzly then the Powermatics. If you get Japanese get the large sharpening diamond stones that lee valley sells they are a different angle than non Japanese chisels.

[Mel Fulks]

I've used several brands of fine old beefy mortisers. I don't think it gets mentioned often enough how fragile the chisels are. You can try spray lube ,and compressed air to keep them clear. The shop owners break them too. They don't complain
when the things break. They never buy them one at a time. I've only used one Maka machine ,but I think that system is
superior .

[Charles Lent]

Before you invest in a square chisel mortiser, seriously look at a Leigh FMT jig. It easily does mortises and matching tenons, compound angled for chairs and tables, and cuts both the mortise and the mating tenon with one setup. A dial on the jig allows for exactly the tightness or looseness of fit, and it's very repeatable. You can make a dozen sets of chair parts, and then randomly pick pieces from the pile to assemble each chair. All will fit together, without the need to fine tune each tenon at assembly. When a tenon "pops" like a toy cork gun from the suction created when you pull a dry fit M & T joint apart, but it will slide in and out of the mortise easily if you move it slowly, you know it's a good fit. Once set up correctly, you can make joints with this kind of fit repeatably using an FMT jig.

I have made mortise and tenon joints about every way possible, except for the Festool Domino. I've owned an FMT Pro jig for about 10 years now, and no longer use any of the other methods. Leigh now offers a template for cutting square end tenons, but I never bought it. The rounded end work just fine. I haven't had a single joint failure since I began using it, and I have made a lot of projects that required M & T joints. I bought it when facing a project that required over 1,600 M & T joints with some of them compound angled. The FMT paid for itself on that one project. I might still be working on it if I was still trying to use the old square drill method of cutting mortises, table saw and jig for cutting tenons, and then hand fitting each joint at assembly time. For tenons on very long boards, I attach the jig to the edge of my shop's pull-down stairway opening, but once used it clamped facing outward on my neighbor's 2nd floor deck railing. It isn't often when these methods need to be used, fortunately, but they do work.

Charley

[Alex Zeller]

I've looked at the Leigh FMT jig. It's about what I was thinking about spending. What I'm looking at right now is the total cost of a hollow chisel mortiser. Not just the tool but the cost of the chisels as well (and anything else I might need). Often it's the "other" stuff that adds up which could make the Leigh jig more tempting. I don't see myself ever doing this for a living so I'm more thinking of more traditional ways of making chairs. With the Leigh it's the guides that look like it could add up. I don't know anyone around me who has one so when I have time I'm going to watch some YouTube videos on the Leigh. I think it has the possibility to do some other types of joints I'm planning on using.

I think it would work but I'm not a big fan of loose tenon joints for chairs. I think they would work just fine if made correctly but I would rather look into it down the road. So I haven't looked too much into the Domino system.

[Brian Holcombe]

Easy enough just to make an angled wedge when you need to tilt a part. Heavily made will more than make up for that minor loss in features.

I’ve not broken any chisels. Keep them very very sharp and having air blowing away chips helps.

[Tom M King]

One good thing about the Star M chisel, and bit sets, is that they come with overly long drill bits. The cutting edge of the bit to chisel cutting edge distance is pretty critical. With the long bits, you can cut them so they seat all the way home in the bit chuck. That not only saves time with setup, but it makes it impossible for the bit to get pushed up into the chisel.

The biggest problem I've seen with other people who have a hard time cutting mortises, is that the bit gets pushed up. This not only ruins the cutting edges, but the relief clearance is gone, and they think that the answer is more pressure.

After getting my first Star M set, I super glued little washers on all my other bits, to get them to exactly the right length.

Another thing is that after a Lot of use, the chisel will get burrs on the outside. I keep an extra-fine diamond paddle handy, and hit the outside surfaces of the chisel every once in a while, to make sure they're kept nice and flat. If it gets harder to pull the chisel back out, this is probably the problem. Don't try to keep working when the chisel gets harder to pull back out. It usually does some sharpening of the chisel anyway, and means you can get more work out of it before it needs to be sharpened.

If it requires more, and more effort, something is not right. Stop, and fix it.

[Mark e Kessler]

Tom, that’s a good idea about cutting the bit I haven’t had them slip but it’s a good fix If I start experiencing that. Other thing I forgot to mention about the Star M is that the chisel has a very slight angle to it and above the polished part where the chips eject is let in a little this is why they work so well. I don’t think the cheaper bits are like that

Regards, Mark
https://www.instagram.com/kessler_woodworks/?hl=en

One good thing about the Star M chisel, and bit sets, is that they come with overly long drill bits. The cutting edge of the bit to chisel cutting edge distance is pretty critical. With the long bits, you can cut them so they seat all the way home in the bit chuck. That not only saves time with setup, but it makes it impossible for the bit to get pushed up into the chisel.

The biggest problem I've seen with other people who have a hard time cutting mortises, is that the bit gets pushed up. This not only ruins the cutting edges, but the relief clearance is gone, and they think that the answer is more pressure.

After getting my first Star M set, I super glued little washers on all my other bits, to get them to exactly the right length.

Another thing is that after a Lot of use, the chisel will get burrs on the outside. I keep an extra-fine diamond paddle handy, and hit the outside surfaces of the chisel every once in a while, to make sure they're kept nice and flat. If it gets harder to pull the chisel back out, this is probably the problem. Don't try to keep working when the chisel gets harder to pull back out. It usually does some sharpening of the chisel anyway, and means you can get more work out of it before it needs to be sharpened.

If it requires more, and more effort, something is not right. Stop, and fix it.

[William Chain]

If you can find them, there are older chisels by Sheffield (made in UK) that are very good. Again, I’ve posted this before in other threads - invest the time in sharpening and honing your chisels. It pays dividends. As for the machine, I have a PM719N, a non tilting XY table. I use wedges to achieve angled mortises. Do not fear the older floor standing machines. That magnificent Bridgewood mortiser in the classifieds recently was so tempting. I tried to justify that so hard. Pick up a vintage machine. You won’t regret it. To my mind, all the tilting mechanisms are just more stuff I have to calibrate.

[Alex Zeller]

Unfortunately that Bridgewood was just too far away. Almost 11 hours each way is too much. That would have meant paying to ship it and asking the seller to put it on a pallet. At over 500 lbs that would require several people to safely move it. Vertical mortisers look very top heavy like a band saw so getting it shipped without damage would of been unlikely. I figured it would have cost an extra $500 for shipping and insurance. In a non virus world I might have made the trip.

Cabinet saws come up used all the time. But mortisers (other than bench models) seam to be very rare around here. Even used oscillating spindle sanders are more common, which I'm also looking for, come up on a semi regular basis. They do show up occasionally at auction but they are usually from a factory and not that well taken care of. I'm just not wanting to go on a search for a much needed piece for a 50 year old tool.

[Tom M King]

I would have bought that Bridgewood too, if it wasn't so far to get it, and I have no extra time at all.