Hello and thank you

[John K Jordan]

...when HF's turning tools were on sale and I had a 20% off coupon, I bought another set so I could reshape them into specialty tools. Half would not hold an edge. That would have been very frustrating when I was just starting out. I would have assumed it was my fault the tools wouldn't cut properly. It's really hard to learn how to sharpen when you're dealing with crappy steel!

I keep a tub of old and used tools to give to beginners and to grind into specialty tools. Some are cheap tools. I check the hardness of each with the file test. it's surprising how many cheap tools are only hardened at the very ends, sometimes just an inch or so. Some are not hardened at all.

JKJ

[Erich Weidner]

As for the tools, there's nothing wrong with the Sorby tools you listed. But, there's little right with them either.

A couple comments in this thread about Sorby not being good. What is the issue with them?
I just bought my first turning tools yesterday, they are Sorby, as I didn't want Chinese Wood River stuff, which was the only other option at my local Woodcraft.

I haven't used them yet, so could still return them if need be.

[Mel Fulks]

Some good workmen like theirs. But many find then too soft, so I would say the issue is quality control. The ones I have
used (briefly borrowed) were all too soft.

[Thomas Canfield]

Back to lathes. Comparing the midi lathes, check the Rikon 70-220VS against the Laguna. It has a longer bed, additional weight, longer quill travel (3-1/2 vs 2-1/2"), same 1" tool rest post, controls on tail end for safer use since stand on that end away from work. I do like the speed ranges of the Laguna better than the Rikon, but have learned to work with them and normally only turn in the mid range. I feel that it is a good buy. I have had some control issues with mine that Rikon promptly took care of and sent the needed replacement controller. The added bed length and longer quill travel make using a drill chuck and bit much easier. Bed extensions are available for all the midi listed so not a factor. Turning outboard on the Laguna might be an advantage, but not a normal process and turning outboard does not allow use of tailstock for support and safety - think larger lathe to get the 16" if you really want larger diameter. I find that 12" bowls are pretty large (turn up to 20" on Powermatic 3520B) and blanks are easier to acquire. Larger, heavier lathes are much better for roughing out unbalanced stock, but patience and the slow speed will usually prevail with the midi lathe, just take longer and more beating at the slow speeds. Take a good look at the different options for turning groups to help make the decision on lathe. Buying a small lathe and then deciding to go larger later is not as big a loss as buy a large lathe and deciding to only do small things later. A small lathe has reasonable resell value so smaller loss that reselling a larger lathe and the loss. Also tools (chucks, gouges, etc) are less for the smaller lathe, but can be used on a larger lathe. Some of the large tools for a large lathe are hard to use on a small lathe. DAMHIK It is a fun hobby that can possibly pay for itself. Have fun.

[David Walser]

Eric -- I stick by my description of Sorby tools: Nothing wrong with them, little right with them either. They are a premium tool and carry a premium tool price. I just don't think they offer a premium performance. They're okay. For the price, there are others I'd prefer. A small part of that is the tempering of the M2 steel. It's not quite as hard as the temper used by other British tool makers. In theory, that should make the edge slightly less durable and slightly easier to sharpen. But, with today's jigs and grinders, that provides little if any benefit. For me, the reason I'm not a big fan is because many of their tools don't feel right in my hand. You might like their feel. If so, you'll think they are better than okay.

[Erich Weidner]

Eric -- But, with today's jigs and grinders, that provides little if any benefit. For me, the reason I'm not a big fan is because many of their tools don't feel right in my hand. You might like their feel. If so, you'll think they are better than okay.

What would you suggest instead? I still haven't used any of them so can return.
I'm eager to get started. So I might do that tomorrow, but I can still return what I don't use. I'm not at all married to the Sorby's it was the only option I could buy *now*. Ashley Iles is mostly out of stock at Tools for Working Wood, Lee Valley has Henry Taylor HSS, but not the M42 stuff.

I did also pick up one Crown Pinnacle Cryo HSS from Woodcraft, just to check out something different.

[David Walser]

If you want English tools, I would go with the Apprentice line from Craft Supplies USA or Packard line from Packard Woodworks. The Apprentice tools are made by Henry Taylor and the Packard by Hamlet. Both are a little less money (and not polished to the same high level) than their makers' branded tools. Here are links: https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/c...-Spindle-Tools (CSUSA organizes its tools by type, not brand. You'll have to do some clicking to see all the Apprentice tools.) https://www.packardwoodworks.com/tools-pkrd.html

Hope this helps.

Note: There are several made-in-USA tools available. They're more money, but most consider them to be worth it. The brands to look for are Thompson, D-Way, and Carter & Son. More links: http://thompsonlathetools.com/ https://d-waytools.com/ https://carterandsontoolworks.com/ Carter & Son sell through their website AND through woodturning retailers, such as CSUSA and Packard.

Note 2: While the made-in-USA tools are made with better steel, I don't usually recommend them for someone just starting out. The English tools are very good quality. They will last you a long time. I've been turning since 2003 and still have and use regularly tools I bought at the start that were made by Hamlet and by Henry Taylor. I also have Thompson and D-Way tools. To my mind there are three primary differences: My Thompson and D-Way tools go longer between sharpening. The steels they are made from just hold an edge better than the M2 HSS of my Hamlet and Henry Taylor tools. Second, the English brands are made for the mass market. They hit a sweet spot in shape of flute and size and shape of handle that 'fit' most turners well. The USA made tools are more specialized in that they come in a wider variety of flute shapes (ask whether turners prefer 'u', 'v', or 'parabolic' shaped flutes for the bowl gouges, and you're going to start an argument. They offer more variety in skew widths and thicknesses. The same for scrapers. Most new turners are not equipped to take advantage of such differences is design. Start with the 'generalist' tool and, after some experience (and trying out another turner's tools), you'll be better prepared to buy a Thompson 'detail spindle gouge'. Or, not. Your call.

Third, the English tools come with wooden handles. The USA made tools do not. You can buy one of their handles (not made of wood), buy someone else's handles, or you can make your own handles. Making handles from wood is a good beginning turning project. But, how are you going to turn a handle if all your turning tools are unhandled?

[Erich Weidner]

Thanks for the tips David. I'll check them out. If I can wait long enough I might even get some HT's before I break open the Sorby's. But, I guess I won't know unless I try something. Time to jump in.

[Mel Fulks]

David, real M2 is pretty good. Some who sell planer knives fill orders for M2 with a semi- high speed steel having "same
hardness as M2". I suspect the same thing is done in some tool sales. Real M2 has a chrome color ,the fake M2 looks
whiter. That used to be easy to see ,but for some years now planer knives and some tools have a lot of grind lines
showing and that obviates a formerly valuable "tell".