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Thread: More on Unicorn Profile

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Riegerix View Post
    Pretty exciting stuff. Anyone have recommendations for a buffing wheel for a Rikon 80-805 slow speed grinder?
    Matt, I have a 1" wide stitched wheel on the left of this half-speed 8" grinder ...




    The right side has now been replaced with a 2" wide stitched wheel. Both wheels are lightly touched with LV green compound.

    So far, I find the 1" wide wheel the more useful.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    South Coastal Massachusetts
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    Search : Dico buffing wheel.

    It works for me and was less than ten bucks.

  3. #18
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    Jan 2009
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    Williamsburg,Va.
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    I NEVER,EVER buff the edge on a wheel. It rounds the cutting edge very easily. Some here use a piece of MDF with green compound on it. That is a good method which does not bugger up your edge. That is the method I use and recommend.

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by george wilson View Post
    I NEVER,EVER buff the edge on a wheel. It rounds the cutting edge very easily. Some here use a piece of MDF with green compound on it. That is a good method which does not bugger up your edge. That is the method I use and recommend.
    The goal of the buffer is to create a very small, very steep microbevel. It's not rounding the edge, but it is rounding the part of the blade right up to the edge. Before actually testing it out, I had assumed that doing such a thing would cause problems -- although I'm not sure exactly what kind of problem I expected. After testing it, I found that the assumption was wrong.

    The idea came from David Weaver over at WoodCentral, and there's a mountain of discussion about it there. I don't know o anyone who has tried it who would disagree that it creates an extremely sharp and much more durable edge.

    I know that me saying stuff about it may not be convincing, so here's the video I made about it:
    https://vimeo.com/444232624

    David made a longer one here:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Do7FdOh6S9s

    And I suggest trying it out.

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Chang View Post
    The goal of the buffer is to create a very small, very steep microbevel. It's not rounding the edge, but it is rounding the part of the blade right up to the edge. Before actually testing it out, I had assumed that doing such a thing would cause problems -- although I'm not sure exactly what kind of problem I expected. After testing it, I found that the assumption was wrong.

    The idea came from David Weaver over at WoodCentral, and there's a mountain of discussion about it there. I don't know o anyone who has tried it who would disagree that it creates an extremely sharp and much more durable edge.

    I know that me saying stuff about it may not be convincing, so here's the video I made about it:
    https://vimeo.com/444232624

    David made a longer one here:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Do7FdOh6S9s

    And I suggest trying it out.
    Hi George,
    If I remember correctly, aren't you and David friends from when he used to hang out here? I used to enjoy reading the discussions between you. So I'd love to hear what you think about the videos that David and Winston made (linked above). Your expertise would add a lot to the discussion Sir.

    I'm very glad to see you back online and posting again!

    Fred
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

    “If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals.”

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by george wilson View Post
    I NEVER,EVER buff the edge on a wheel. It rounds the cutting edge very easily. Some here use a piece of MDF with green compound on it. That is a good method which does not bugger up your edge. That is the method I use and recommend.
    George my dear friend ... it is Wonderful to see you back again! Being able to type tells me that you are doing somewhat better.

    Your comments about buffing edges would find universal agreement if ... and big "if" ... this process involved a hard wheel, such as the leather wheels on the Tormek - I could never get along with those ... so slow and so ineffective. One miscue and the edge was dubbed.

    Like you, I have used LV green compound on planed hardwood as my strop. No give at all.

    However ... the "Unicorn profile" is something different from all this. Has David not discussed this with you? Basically, it involved using a soft wheel to add a nano (my term) tertiary bevel. The aim here is not to get the edge sharper, but to create a miniscule high tertiary bevel (say, 45 degrees) to beef up the edge and make it more durable. In practice this does not make the edge duller - it retains the sharpness, but extends the life of the edge.

    Here is a picture taken by Winston (amazing work, Winston!) ...



    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  7. #22
    A couple or three weeks ago I would have been in George's camp. Strop off the Arkansas stones but with care and no strop when using JNATs. Strange how a few videos, some posts on a forum, and a little experiment can change beliefs developed over many years. Still not 100% but I expect it is not far off.

    I sure have a bunch of beautiful JNATs and hard Arkansas stones that may just gather dust in the future. That is the bad news, the good it could save a ton of money.

    ken

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    Sooo, not only would I need to buy that cotton wheel...but, I would also need to buy another grinder...as the current one is rather busy...coarse wheel on one side, wire wheel on the other...plus another stick or three of the "compound" to smear on that wheel?

    Currently? I have an old leather belt as my strop. At one time, it was my tool bag work belt....until I hung that rig up.

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by steven c newman View Post
    Sooo, not only would I need to buy that cotton wheel...but, I would also need to buy another grinder...as the current one is rather busy...coarse wheel on one side, wire wheel on the other...plus another stick or three of the "compound" to smear on that wheel?

    Currently? I have an old leather belt as my strop. At one time, it was my tool bag work belt....until I hung that rig up.
    Steve,

    Watch Winston Chang's video, he uses a cordless drill and a $10 USD cotton wheel from Home Depot that comes with compound. Not a lot to invest if you want to investigate.

    ken

  10. Quote Originally Posted by george wilson View Post
    It rounds the cutting edge very easily.
    My guess is that someone will soon come with a sophisticated eclipse-like guide, with elliptic wheels or shims to provide the finest elliptic pico bevel on very fine and expensive stones

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Virginia
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    1,209
    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Chang View Post
    The goal of the buffer is to create a very small, very steep microbevel. It's not rounding the edge, but it is rounding the part of the blade right up to the edge. Before actually testing it out, I had assumed that doing such a thing would cause problems -- although I'm not sure exactly what kind of problem I expected. After testing it, I found that the assumption was wrong.

    The idea came from David Weaver over at WoodCentral, and there's a mountain of discussion about it there. I don't know o anyone who has tried it who would disagree that it creates an extremely sharp and much more durable edge.

    I know that me saying stuff about it may not be convincing, so here's the video I made about it:
    https://vimeo.com/444232624

    David made a longer one here:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Do7FdOh6S9s

    And I suggest trying it out.
    Winston thanks for that video. Well done with those photos.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    866
    Quote Originally Posted by ken hatch View Post
    A couple or three weeks ago I would have been in George's camp. Strop off the Arkansas stones but with care and no strop when using JNATs. Strange how a few videos, some posts on a forum, and a little experiment can change beliefs developed over many years. Still not 100% but I expect it is not far off.

    I sure have a bunch of beautiful JNATs and hard Arkansas stones that may just gather dust in the future. That is the bad news, the good it could save a ton of money.

    ken
    I am finding it very interesting t observe the ho-hum reaction of most folks. It is not as though there is another revolution going on in the world of honing. A couple strokes on a 1200 diamond plate (no oil or water required) and a few secinds on the buffing wheel and one is back to work with an uber sharp, durable edge. Ho-hum indeed,

  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Curt Putnam View Post
    I am finding it very interesting t observe the ho-hum reaction of most folks. It is not as though there is another revolution going on in the world of honing. A couple strokes on a 1200 diamond plate (no oil or water required) and a few secinds on the buffing wheel and one is back to work with an uber sharp, durable edge. Ho-hum indeed,

    A lot of people are hide bound. (I am, and I barely have many hours invested in sharpening compared to most folks here.)

    I think a lot of modern hand tool philosophy also is that we've lost more to time than we've advanced with our modern technologies. Said another way, we woodworkers largely abandoned traditional techniques and hand tools, and replaced much of the kit with circular saws, power tools, etc. so there was a wide skill gap between the last generation of woodworkers who used hand tools day-in and day-out, and the modern day neanderthal where we have to sort of relearn the lessons any craftsman of the early 20th century would not consider worth writing down as it was "common knowledge".

    So "nothing new under the sun" naturally makes one skeptical that we've actually found a new vastly better way to sharpen vs the slow evolution of hundreds of years of 100% hand tool craftsman.

    Anyway, I'm not at all saying this method doesn't work and isn't a quantum leap in sharpening. Just waxing the philosophical as to why folks would be doubters and nay-sayers. (At least initially). I don't know, as I haven't tried it yet, and am still trying to get myself to use just three water stones when sharpening vs. the whole progression I have. It's tradition (for me). (And stupidly, I've so little sharpening time under my belt that it is silly that I am having trouble trying something outside of my habit).


    PS Also, if someone did this back in the day they'd probably be murdered in the night by the guilds and sharpening stone Illuminati. :P
    Last edited by Erich Weidner; 08-12-2020 at 11:05 PM. Reason: making it better 'n stuff

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    So Cal
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    3,737
    Sharpening with a buffing wheel isn’t nothing new. It is in fact how I sharpen my carving tools it produces a edge with a nice curve so I can scoop out wood in tight spaces. The steel in carving tools is soft so that’s a plus.
    Straight edge tools like a plane blade or chisels are very simple to sharpen. I use a hard leather with red Jewelers if I feel like taking the straight edge further then my polishing stone.
    The buffer I have will make a sharp shiny blunt edge. It might be good for some of the harder woods but not so much with softer woods.
    The question I ask myself why is David still stuck on plane blades and chisels I thought he would be on the the next thing.
    Didn’t he mastered sharpening his tools when he was a member here.
    Good Luck everyone
    Aj

  15. #30
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    Feb 2004
    Location
    Perth, Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Hughes View Post
    Sharpening with a buffing wheel isn’t nothing new. It is in fact how I sharpen my carving tools it produces a edge with a nice curve so I can scoop out wood in tight spaces. The steel in carving tools is soft so that’s a plus.
    Straight edge tools like a plane blade or chisels are very simple to sharpen. I use a hard leather with red Jewelers if I feel like taking the straight edge further then my polishing stone.
    The buffer I have will make a sharp shiny blunt edge. It might be good for some of the harder woods but not so much with softer woods.
    The question I ask myself why is David still stuck on plane blades and chisels I thought he would be on the the next thing.
    Didn’t he mastered sharpening his tools when he was a member here.
    Good Luck everyone
    Andrew

    This is not the power buffing as with carving chisels, using hard leather on wheels. This is also not the buffing of the edge to increase the sharpness of a bench chisel (however, a by-product of the method also leads to sharp edges). What it involves is a nano rounded bevel at the edge of the blade. See the photo below, which I am reposting from a post above.



    This rounded nano bevel strengthens the edge as the very tip may now be about 45 degrees. However, since the chisel bevel remains at a low angle, it remains capable of penetrating the wood as if the edge was the same lower cutting angle.

    A final point, although David has recommended it, the primary bevel does not need to be ground back to 20 degrees. I have been doing the unicorn edge on 25- and 30-degree bevels as well.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

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