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Thread: Pocket hole jig recommendations for production trim

  1. #16
    If I werent in panic'd rush I'd be looking for a decent used horizontal boring machine. Biscuit would be a waste of time and never hold the joints together especially if they were going to be raised from horizontal (bench) to vertical or transported to a job. Disaster. Tight domino's would be fine, overkill, still require some clamping. Pocket screws will not handle a lot of movement/racking/transport either.

    A horizontal boring setup with a couple of dowles (preglued or not) would give you the absolute best face registration and zero l/r registration to account for on assembly. If you dial in your dowel to hole size clamp time would be in the seconds range I would guess.

  2. #17
    Here's your machine if its still available.....

    https://youtu.be/fubgN8TD1YE

  3. #18
    Join Date
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    Taking the time to properly set up dust collection would be a great benefit especially in time management. If not wood chips will affect the placement of the next boards and you will constantly be blowing or sweeping away sawdust or chips. Not a big deal if you’re doing three or four but if you’re going to be drilling for hours I would definitely use whatever dust collection feature you might have available.

    Dan

  4. #19
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    Crazy thought as i read Glenn Bradley's comments on the need to stand up the workpiece for the Kreg K4 or K5---but if i was going to use mine in this application and with a bunch to do...would it be worth rigging up a horizontal mount so the work is laying length-wise? Just some quick ideas on how it might work shouldn't take an hour to build. Mount the jig on a stand at 90 degrees clockwise from "normal" (if right handed) so the casing could stand on edge and the drilling could kind of be from the side. I may try that just for kicks this weekend--seems like it would work, and for narrow stock that drill angle would be easier on my shoulder!!
    earl

  5. #20
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    Phillip, You don't have to vertically hold the long pieces of trim with the
    kreg system. I just leave the piece of stock on my work surface and lay the jig over the end of the stock. Quick, easy and no headroom issues.

  6. #21
    First, I wouldn't pre assemble off job site, but assemble on job site. Instead of drilling pocket holes in styles, drill them in head piece. Fabricate a table with clamps to hold pieces when assembling. Because you have many to do, consider getting two pocket hole jigs, one stationary, and the other adjustable depending upon the length of the head piece. Just my two cents worth.

  7. #22
    Bruce,

    I am already planning to do all the trim work including assembly on site. I have a few 4x8 assembly tables that I plan to modify as necessary for proper clamping / work holding.

    I could be wrong, but my gut tells me that screwing from the end grain direction (stile) into the long grain direction (head casing) has better screw holding power than screwing from across edge grain into end grain. I know with structural applications (think large structural screws) you need about 25% deeper embedment if screwing into end grain as opposed to screwing into long grain. This could be different for trim applications as I’ve never really used pocket screws for much so I’m new to this particular party.

    Thanks for the comment.
    Still waters run deep.

  8. #23
    As for having to stand the stock vertically in order to drill the pocket, I only made that comment based on watching the video for the K5 on Kreg’s website. Sounds like that’s not strictly necessary and there are some work arounds for drilling with long stock laying down.

    As much as it sounds like this is a production operation (it is a large commercial job site so it kind of is), I’m ultimately looking for a balance between relative speed of assembly, joints that stay tight, and money out of my own pocket to achieve it and don’t necessarily need the end all be all solution for this particular job. I can’t afford a $1k tool for a building worth of casing. Will there be other casing that follows later down the line and other supplemental pocket hole uses, most likely yes, but I can’t quite justify that expense to myself at this point for pocket hole joinery.

    I go all out and down the rabbit hole in other areas of woodworking and machinery, but am really looking to strike that balance of simplicity, value, and quality with this particular situation. I know that means different things to different people, but I would much rather put $1k towards the upgrade of my dust collection system in my shop with a new cyclone, for example than a fancy pocket hole cutter that may see not see continuous use.

    Thanks to everybody for the replies and insights. Keep ‘em coming.
    Last edited by Phillip Mitchell; 08-07-2020 at 9:48 PM.
    Still waters run deep.

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Jenness View Post
    Biscuits are quite capable of holding a casing butt joint together. If the casing width doesn't mesh well with #20's you can cut overlapping slots and trim the biscuits to get gluing surface near the edges.

    I suggested dominos because you said you had used them in the past so I assumed you had one, plus dominos are slightly better at keeping the surfaces flush. Pocket screws without glue are expeditious but not as strong and creep-free as a glued joint.If you can offset the joint surfaces by having the head casing thicker that would give you some margin for error, a good thing when using prefinished stock. If the edges are eased at all a flush joint is not going to look good.

    The machine I have is actually a PC 552, which I paid $300 for. The 550 has a laminate trimmer for the pocket cut as opposed to a PC690 and you have to drill the pilot hole with a hand-held drill, so definitely slower. You may be better off with a Kreg Foreman if you don't mind the steeper pocket angle.

    Nice work on your website by the way. I like the end grain prints.
    Thank you Kevin for the kind words. The end grain relief prints are really fascinating to me and something that I really want to carve out more time to explore and experiment with. I’ve been meaning to compile a bunch of process photos and post a thread on here about them as I bet many folks here would find it as interesting as I do. I would say that 90% of my print sales have gone to other woodworkers or artists of some kind, which is notable.
    Still waters run deep.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    I have a Kreg jig that had an integral 2 post drill guide built into it. Much faster as the drill bit never leaves the guide bushing and you never even have to pick up the drill. But I can't even find a picture on Google. This doesn't look like it will take too long to build, really quick!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiKS4tpuVQw

  11. #26
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    Atlanta
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    I’m guessing you (and everyone else) didn’t really take a close look at the biscuits I linked ?


    They are specialized “clamping” biscuits that have quite a bit if grab. Lamello (the inventor or the biscuit joiner) has one too called the K20. They don’t swell either.

    If you have a biscuit joiner or can borrow one I strongly suggest buying a box of those things and doing a mock-up. You might be surprised. I can tell you with certainty that it’ll be more efficient than pocket screws for producing the joints on your project. If you feel they don’t have enough holding power , you only invested 15min of time and ten bucks.
    Last edited by Dave Sabo; 08-07-2020 at 11:55 PM.

  12. #27
    Ah ok, I missed that. Thanks for clarifying. Do you still need to use glue? I guess some glue would be extra insurance and that biscuit is self clamping so you could assemble with glue and set it aside with no clamps necessary while the glue dries.

    What I’ve done in the past with casing preassembly with dominos required setting aside the assembled casing unit with a long pipe clamp or two on the unit to let it dry and it’s usually a bit cumbersome to move around and a sometimes a challenge to find an ideal place to let it rest and glue to dry on a you start assembling an entire house / building worth of casings. It seems like these biscuits would allow me to lay the assembled casings down somewhere flat and possibly even stack like sizes on top of each other for drying and could work well.

    Is the one you linked to from Rockler the only version or do you know of others, specifically a bulk sized package? Thanks Dave.
    Still waters run deep.

  13. #28
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    Have you considered clam clamps and HiPUR? It seems effective. I like pocket screws on jack mitered casing, and just use my castle (pc) machine for that.

  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Jared Sankovich View Post
    Have you considered clam clamps and HiPUR? It seems effective. I like pocket screws on jack mitered casing, and just use my castle (pc) machine for that.
    Clam clamps are great, but aren’t they just for mitered casing? This particular casing is butt and pass style. They also leave those little holes where the pins grip, which are about the same a finish nail hole, but still bother me in stain grade trim.

    I was trying to think of a way to work HiPUR into this equation, but haven’t really figured it out yet.

    I think I’m going to pick up a used biscuit joiner, try the self clamping biscuits that Dave recommended and start experimenting there. Of course, any samples I try make look great at first and I won’t know how the joint will hold up with seasonal wood movement until well after this casing is up in the building.

    Has anyone else used these self clamping “serrated” biscuits? The trim is 1x4 and 1x6 flat stock. I’m wondering if I could
    fit 2 biscuits in each joint? One self clamping and one normal with glue. Doubt there will be space in the 1x4, but possibly the 1x6 casing assemblies.
    Still waters run deep.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Mitchell View Post
    Clam clamps are great, but aren’t they just for mitered casing? This particular casing is butt and pass style. They also leave those little holes where the pins grip, which are about the same a finish nail hole, but still bother me in stain grade trim.

    I was trying to think of a way to work HiPUR into this equation, but haven’t really figured it out yet.

    I think I’m going to pick up a used biscuit joiner, try the self clamping biscuits that Dave recommended and start experimenting there. Of course, any samples I try make look great at first and I won’t know how the joint will hold up with seasonal wood movement until well after this casing is up in the building.

    Has anyone else used these self clamping “serrated” biscuits? The trim is 1x4 and 1x6 flat stock. I’m wondering if I could
    fit 2 biscuits in each joint? One self clamping and one normal with glue. Doubt there will be space in the 1x4, but possibly the 1x6 casing assemblies.
    I missed the the part where the legs just butt into the head.

    I would pocket screw that all day long

    20190317_121143.jpg
    20190317_215451.jpg

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