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Thread: Pocket hole jig recommendations for production trim

  1. #1

    Pocket hole jig recommendations for production trim

    I have a portion of a job coming up in the next handful of weeks where I’m planning to preassemble about 30 windows (+ dozens of doors) worth of casing trim and am considering pocket screws on the back side of the casing where the leg and head / bottom casing joint comes together. This trim will not be mitered but instead the head piece will cap the end of the leg piece (ie: butt and pass.) The material is a rougher grade of stain grade prefinished White Pine (not my selection)...I’m trying I mitigate small gaps in the joinery should the material shrink after install and the heat in the building is turned on. I know that you can’t eliminate wood movement, but my thought is that if I mechanically fasten the joint between horizontal and vertical, when it moves the outside edges of the wood will be more free to move than the inside edge where the joint is and therefore be more likely to move along that edge and not open up my joints.

    I have done entire houses of preassembled mitered casing with either biscuits and glue or dominos and glue in the miters and this worked well, however we all know how weak an end grain to edge grain glue joint is and this doesn’t seem like a worthy approach for this style of trim.

    I have no practical or hands on experience with pocket hole jigs and am looking for some guidance and direction on what to consider for my application.

    I don’t need a Cadillac or anything motorized or automated, but I would prefer it to be stout and well made. I’m sure I would end up using it for the occasional cabinet face frames that come up from time to time so keep that in mind with the recommendations.

    I will be assembling the casing / doing all the cutting and trim “joinery” on site likely on top of a flat 4x8 assembly table.

    Thoughts?
    Still waters run deep.

  2. #2
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    I’d suggest a biscuit joiner and some of these:
    https://www.rockler.com/striplox-gri...scuits-25-pack

    You’ll realize all kinds of time advantages. They will also have some room for movement as well as some gripping strength. A DeWalt or PC biscuit joiner can be had for less than $200. Makita makes a cordless one if that’s your battery platform.

  3. #3
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    IIWM, I'd get a foreman machine. (I know you said you didn't need a machine...I just think you should want one). For one thing, the trim would be flat and horizontal; ideal for working with long trim. For another thing, in a few seconds it clamps the work and bores the pocket; it will save you a *lot* of time. Third point: good dust collection; no having to brush chips off the jig and workpiece after every hole. Fourth point: it's not that much more expensive than the high end jig setups.

    I bought mine for a much smaller project than you are talking about, and never regretted it a second.
    --I had my patience tested. I'm negative--

  4. #4
    Dominos would be a better choice in my opinion but you would need a number of long clamps or face frame clamps for production given your head casing layout. Pocket screws without glue on prefinished material may show more joint movement than you would like.

    If you are set on pocket screws I would recommend a Castle TSM-12 manually operated benchtop machine. I have an old Porter Cable 330 that is basically the same machine- simple, rugged and fast. I far prefer the lower angle routed pockets (6 vs 10 degrees) as they shift less when driving screws. I get the best results clamping endways as well as down across the joint before screwing.

    One thing you might consider to make installation easier is backing out the material in the center with a dado blade or router to span over irregularities between the extension jambs and wall surface. You would have to do stopped dados in the head casings and adjust the pocket depth- I do this on my machine by using a substitute thinner table. In my house I have the head casings fit between the sides so I can run the dados through and the tops of the side casings don't show. I pre-fit and assembled the sill, casings and jamb extensions for each opening as a unit.

  5. #5
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    Why no love for the biscuit joiner? It eliminates the need for expensive equipment, jigs, clamps and time. They have dust collection too and the system has a bit of wiggle room built into it

    I’d use a domino too, but I have one already and $1200 is going to be a big spend for a job like this if you have to go buy one.

  6. #6
    I don’t see a biscuit joint of end grain to edge grain being mechanically strong enough to resist the joint from opening up from expansion and contraction. Maybe I’m wrong...?

    I don’t own a Domino, but have used one many times before. This isn’t the project or reason to buy one and honestly, up to this point, they don’t fit into my work flow enough to justify the cost personally, though that may change.

    The main reasons I’m thinking pocket screws is for the mechanical connection at the joint, not many clamps / waiting around on glue to set up and all the clamps and space that takes up, and speed of assembly.

    Il sure the Castle TSM - 12 is the machine to get if I were doing this every week, but I can’t justify $1200 for this at the moment.

    There is a used Porter Cable 550 on eBay right now for $250 obo. Any good? Worth looking into?
    Still waters run deep.

  7. #7
    Biscuits are quite capable of holding a casing butt joint together. If the casing width doesn't mesh well with #20's you can cut overlapping slots and trim the biscuits to get gluing surface near the edges.

    I suggested dominos because you said you had used them in the past so I assumed you had one, plus dominos are slightly better at keeping the surfaces flush. Pocket screws without glue are expeditious but not as strong and creep-free as a glued joint.If you can offset the joint surfaces by having the head casing thicker that would give you some margin for error, a good thing when using prefinished stock. If the edges are eased at all a flush joint is not going to look good.

    The machine I have is actually a PC 552, which I paid $300 for. The 550 has a laminate trimmer for the pocket cut as opposed to a PC690 and you have to drill the pilot hole with a hand-held drill, so definitely slower. You may be better off with a Kreg Foreman if you don't mind the steeper pocket angle.

    Nice work on your website by the way. I like the end grain prints.
    Last edited by Kevin Jenness; 08-07-2020 at 1:02 AM.

  8. #8
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    Phillip, Go with your plan for pocket holes. My entire home's trim is done that way and I've never had a joint move. I just use a basic Kreg 4 jig and it has proven easy and quick to use. Feel free to PM me if you'd like detailed info on screw locations and other things I learned doing it this way.

  9. #9
    Biscuits are highly underrated and IMHO Festool Dominos are highly overrated. (BTW I have both and use them).
    But in this application the OP asked about pocket hole devices. And I assume that he is looking for a fast no muss no fuss solution.

    So here is my opinion the Kregg pocket hole jig works though you get what you pay for.
    I have the Castle TSM 12 and I love it but its about 1200.
    Google Castle 100 pocket hole machine its about 500 but well built and wont cause you aggravation using it.
    The Kregg and Shop Fox seem to be kind of cheesy.

  10. #10
    I think you are correct to go with pocket screws. Even with the small Kreg jig the process will be faster than any method requiring glue.

    Also, if you encounter any fit issues you can easily take a corner apart.

  11. #11
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    [QUOTE=George Makra;3043738]Biscuits are highly underrated and IMHO Festool Dominos are highly overrated. (BTW I have both and use them).
    But in this application the OP asked about pocket hole devices. And I assume that he is looking for a fast no muss no

    I have used booth biscuits and dominos and there is no comparison

    The problem with biscuits is they don’t offer any strength to the joint. Plus their nasty habit of swelling and telegraphing to the surface. The only time I will use biscuits is for alignment. Dominos do offer significant strength to a joint. (There are many videos available comparing biscuits and dominos strength)

    I just don’t use the biscuit cutter anymore
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  12. #12
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    Pocket holes are not a regular part of my work but, they are great for certain situations and can help with unexpected requirements. That is to say I have drilled and screwed enough of them to be experienced in their use. Based on this, by the time I did "30 windows (+ dozens of doors)" worth of frame joints I would be begging to buy a motorized unit. Still $450 for a Kreg Foreman would take quite a bite out of the profit or budget as the case may be. The multi step process required by something like the Castle 100 would steer me clear of that. A machine should eliminate steps.

    Given that, a Kreg rig will probably land in your sites. The vertical requirement of the Kreg K4, K5 and the like may or may not be an issue. I am not clear on the length of stock you are dealing with or your overhead clearance in the shop. For more than a hole or two you will want built in dust collection. I have gotten by without it since I do not use pocket holes in the manner you are talking about. An inexpensive Kreg 320 or even an R3 may get your through the project. If I went that route I would cast dust collection to the wind. Like some freehand routing processes, just mask up and let it fly. Clean up afterwards ;-)
    "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".


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  13. #13
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    I have the Kreg K3 system and use it for most shop projects. Joints are very strong and fast. The K5 master system is only $129 - much cheaper than any machine. With the K3, I can drill a lot of pocket holes in a very short time. I think the bigger time saver on this project vs a machine is to have a system for aligning and clamping pieces. Kreg sells a clamping table top for this purpose, but you could easily make something similar.


  14. #14
    All good comments here. Much appreciated.

    The trim casing pieces will range in length from around 3 - 8 ft, seems like having to stand them up vertically to drill a pocket hole would be a pain on something that long. Space / headroom isn’t an issue on site (huge vaulted ceilings) but simply trying to get it aligned square in the jig with an 8’ 1x6 board seems like a potential downfall.

    Anybody got a used Castle TSM 12 they want to sell me??
    Still waters run deep.

  15. #15
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    The strength of pocket screws depends on the length of thread engagment, glue, and density of the wood. Get just a couple of threads into soft pine and you don't get nearly the strength of a biscuit. Clamping will be paramount to a quality joint. I'd suggest you do some strength experiements before buying any big equipment.

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