Powermatic 75 dust collector - worthy?

[Phillip Mitchell]

I have the opportunity to buy an excellent used condition Powermatic 75 dust collector. Double bags (5 micron), 3 HP, 220V motor (not a problem.)

I have had a HF 2HP unit for several years now with a Wynn 35A canister, and a homemade trash can separator with a single run of 4" expandable Rockler flex hose and have been moving it from tool to tool and have had mixed results. I've made some significant machine upgrades over the past couple years and am definitely past the modest limits of the modified HF unit. The canister gets clogged much more often than I'd like and CFM is inadequate (4" flex hose is not helping here.) Tools on central dust collection currently are (2) table saws, 20" bandsaw, 12" jointer, 20" planer. My shop is currently in my basement, but won't always be, thought it likely will be for at least a few years more. I operate a woodworking business from it that vacillates between full time and part time, but definitely need and appreciate quality tools and efficiency.

I recently started saving up with intentions to buy a Clearvue 1800 with shorter filters and plumb my shop with 6" PVC, blastgates, etc, but it will take me at least 6 months to a year to save up for that purchase outright unless a handful of really profitable jobs come along (who knows)

I have been looking of used cyclones for sale for months as well, but have a ceiling height limitation (89") which is pretty limiting for most cyclones. This Powermatic just came up for barely more than the price of a new HF 2HP unit and has me seriously considering. I've used similar 3 HP, 2 baggers in commercial woodshops and the CFM was good, just relatively poor filtration in those cases.

I would absolutely buy 1 micron (or less if available) canister filters from Wynn for this Powermatic unit. I'm assuming I'd want to modify it into some sort of 2 stage collector at the same time to keep the canisters from clogging quickly.

This adds $350-500 on top of the cost of the unit.

Does anyone know if something like the Oneida Super Dust Deputy would work for this application on this machine or if not, what I'd need to do to it for optimum chip/large particle separation?

I would plan to plumb the unit with 6" PVC in the same location as I was planning to put the Clearvue so that if/when I do upgrade, the ductwork shouldn't change much if at all.

I would likely sell the HF unit or relegate it to jobsite / trim duty.

Just trying to get a sense of if I have much to loose with this situation or if it's a no brainer and relatively win-win even if I upgrade to a Clearvue in a year or two. At the price listed, I could likely resell it for 200% of what I paid for it, though I'd probably break even after the filter / 2 stage upgrades unless I found the right buyer who really valued those upgrades.

Thoughts?

[james manutes]

How much for the old DC ? I'll assume around $200 . I'd keep the blower only , put a Dust Deputy XL under it , build a cyclone . Your Wynn filter is almost 300 sq. ft filter area , plenty . How big is the impeller on that Powermatic ? You have some equipment there , time for some better DC .

[james manutes]

A shop built cyclone may be that short term thing , until you go to a Clear Vue or Onieda unit . I've sold 2 shop built cyclone's to buddies . I don't think you'll lose money too badly .

[Phillip Mitchell]

James,

Thanks for the reply. This Sub forum is definitely less frequented than the General Woodworking forum.

Here is a link I found online to the Model 75 sales sheet

http://content.powermatic.com/catalogs/pow06_05_dustcollection.pdf

Looks like the impeller on this unit is 14”. I don’t remember but they may actually be the same diameter as the HF unit I currently have, but I’ve got to imagine a 3HP 220V motor on the powermatic is doing a better job than the “2HP” HF motor, which has always felt like a pretty weak 2 HP to me.

Ive used a couple different Taiwanese made, double bag, 3 HP 220V blowers before in other shops that were plumbed with a 6” trunk line a lot longer runs than my 4” 20’ flex hose and the CFM and seat of the pants performance was night and day between the two systems. The HF unit has always felt pretty anemic to me and has never seemed worthy of the time and expense of plumbing hard pipe to it, but maybe I’m wrong.

Side by side hypothetical comparison, if I’m using Wynn canister filters and a SDD XL cyclone with 6” PVC on both units, what would the performance differences be? Seems to me it’s basically impeller size / design, motor HP / efficiency / reliability, and more than double the filtration area on the 3 HP powermatic (2 - 20” diameter canisters compared to 1 - 17” diameter canister on the HF.)

I’d expect to get $300-350 for the modified HF unit on the used market.

[David L Morse]

The HF has a 10" fan. You can expect about double the static pressure with a 14" fan. If all else were the same that would translate to about 40% increase in maximum flow but splitting the outlet into two separators and filters reduces the outlet side resistance by a factor of four. It will be a big boost in performance over the HFDC.

Note that motor HP rating has no effect on fan performance. It really only affects motor temperature and thus lifetime.

Adding a SDD XL and pleated filters should make a very nice system.

[David Walser]

James -- I didn't reply to your original post because I don't have a Powermatic 75. However, I do know that the HF dust collector has an impeller of just under 10". So, the Powermatic 75 should move a lot more air with it's bigger impeller and bigger motor. I just converted my HF dust collector into a cyclone by taking it apart and attaching a Super Dust Deputy. (The only thing I kept is the motor and blower.) If you were to do the same, Oneida would (I think) recommend the XL version of their Super Dust Deputy. Oneida's website says the XL is for units with 3 - 5 horse power. The 5" is for units with up-to 3 hp. However, they also say that the biggest factor is the size of your ducting. If you have 6" ducting, you should use the XL. If you have 5" ducting, use the 5".

By the way, I had a system similar to yours -- a HF dust collector with a Wynn 35 filter and a trashcan dust separator. When I took my system apart, I was surprised by how dirty my filter was. It was packed! That's the problem with a trashcan separator. Sometimes it works and sometimes not so much. By the time you spot the problem, your filter can easily be clogged. Having said that, even with the filter as dirty as it was, it was still working much better than it did with the filter bag!

HTH.

[Phillip Mitchell]

David and David ,

Thank you both for the replies. Very helpful.

The Wynn filter on my HF unit has gotten clogged so many times and I’m frustrated with having to take it off, take it outside, attempt to clean it with compressed air, then eventually spend an inordinate amount of time scraping packed dust from inside the pleats only to have it clog again relatively soon. The trash can separator leaves a lot to be desired and I’ll chalk it up to my homemade baffle likely not being aerodynamically optimal despite a few tweaks over the years. I’m ready to move on to more of an actual cyclone with more CFM.

Happy to hear that is 3 HP unit could be that and at least get me through for a time until I can save for the ClearVue or similar.

[james manutes]

The filter clogging you've had is from using a trash can separator and an underpowered DC . I hope you haven't damaged the Wynn filter , they are fragile . A leaf blower is a safer option . The challenge to me is that DC has 2 exhaust points (left/right ) , run with a second filter or close 1 side . The blower housing itself might have a ring also , that you could remove . I just enjoy the build itself , and a 3 HP Powermatic w/ 14" impeller is a great starting point . I'm using a 2 HP Grizzly blower , wish I could have found something a little bigger . On the downside , the HF w/ trash can Sep. will be tough to get $350 for , I'd say . Good Luck .

[Phillip Mitchell]

The filter clogging you've had is from using a trash can separator and an underpowered DC . I hope you haven't damaged the Wynn filter , they are fragile . A leaf blower is a safer option . The challenge to me is that DC has 2 exhaust points (left/right ) , run with a second filter or close 1 side . The blower housing itself might have a ring also , that you could remove . I just enjoy the build itself , and a 3 HP Powermatic w/ 14" impeller is a great starting point . I'm using a 2 HP Grizzly blower , wish I could have found something a little bigger . On the downside , the HF w/ trash can Sep. will be tough to get $350 for , I'd say . Good Luck .

The filter isn’t damaged, it just clogs quickly. I actually rarely use compressed air because it never seems to actually get to the dust that gets packed in between the pleats. A couple times I’ve broken down and used my fingers to gently scrape the pleats clean and it’s remembered as one of the worst hours of my life and set me down the path of saving for a better system.

$350 would be nice, that’s where I’ll start, but what I get for it on the used market isn’t the most important factor in this decision. If it doesn’t sell for what I think it should, I’ll just keep and use it on the jobsite.

It would cost someone assembling the same setup today about $500 + to piece together not including the Lone Ranger remote start.

[james manutes]

Another possible hurdle is the collection bin , In the basement you may need to make something custom to your situation . I think you have the HP/ Impeller for a possible bigger shop . Learn all you can about the ductwork , minimize the flex , 6" ports where possible . CV 1800 is a 15" impeller I think , so you would be in the neighborhood .

[Phillip Mitchell]

Thanks James. Figuring it out as I get into it, but the current plan is to use a salvaged 35 gal thick plastic drum and fabricate a tightly sealed lid / 6” port. It seems like the Super Dust Deputy XL would need to hover just above this bin on a self / wall supported mount so that the waste collection bin could come out easily for disposal. Then probably hard 6” pipe from the top of the SDD to the impeller on the 3 HP unit.

I will have a main 6” trunk line running down the center of the shop ceiling with probably 5 different drops / wyes / blast gates for both table saws, bandsaw, planer, then jointer. The ClearVue 6” blast gates look pretty good for 6” PVC for $15 each.

Totaling up what I’ll need to make this system the way I really want it to be will easily put me around $1000-1200 including the cost of the used DC, Wynn 35A filters, Super Dust Deputy XL, flex line for drops to machines, hard pipe and fittings, blast gates, 220V remote (anybody have a good recommendation for 3HP 220V remote?), and running a new 220V circuit (I can do 90% of that work myself.)

The ClearVue would cost me about minimum of $2200 just for the cyclone + tax + shipping and that doesn’t include any of the other stuff listed above to actually make it functional and fully setup. It would likely be around $2600-2700 total to get it up and running with new 6” hard pipe as listed above.

Hopefully the Powermatic with SDD XL will approach more than 50% of the performance of the ClearVue until I can afford it.

I’m open to recommendations and advice on this approach. This is my first time setting up a hard piped DC system, despite having used several in shops set up by others before me.

[james manutes]

Just a suggestion. Check out the you tube builds of "unemployed Redneck Hillbilly creations ' & " Grey House Studio ". 2 shop built cyclones . Do you have average fabrication skills ? Might have to use a grinder . really , the only part of the Powermatic you need is the blower . Thats it . The Wynn filter fits the HF 19' round housing , you could use that . What you DON'T want to do is reduce down to the 5" opening on the HF housing if it is re-used . The output flange on the 3 HP blower is 5: x 6" I think . 30 sq. in. area . Area on a 6" pipe is 28.5 " . Pretty close . You can alternatively use the Powermatic body , with 2 rings for the bags .You don't need more than 300 sq. ft of filter media , no harm if you do however . Point is , you want the "choke point " to be the cyclone itself , which is 6" in and out .So modify what you have , or build the exhaust plenum from scratch , so you don't create any back pressure . Air behaves like water , you don't want to reduce what will pass thru . Lots to see on You Tube- good and not so good . Grey House Studio I remember made his own exhaust plenum . For filter clean-out I use a 5 gal. bucket with the screw off lid , works great .

[james manutes]

Another thought . If you wanted to sell the HF collector w/ the Wynn filter , a great source for filters is AirCleaningSpecialists - ACS . Sales rep is Chris Peanick , very prompt and helpful . I bought the same filter sold by ClearVue ( 13 x 39 - 292 sq. ft. area ) , for $94 plus shipping . I damn near died . Wynn filters are wonderful but not the only thing out there .

[Phillip Mitchell]

I picked up this dust collector this morning. It came with quite a few 4” fittings, blast gates, and about 60’ of 4” flex hose. I’m not planning to use much 4” flex, so will likely try and sell it, give it away, or use it for job site duty. Not sure what to do with all the 4” fittings and accessories. Maybe I’ll list them here for sale.

As you can see, I have a bit of a ceiling height clearance issue . It’s not as bad as it looks as that door is pretty short. I do think it will actually fit barely if I remove the casters and place it so the bags are between ceiling joists, but I’m still planning to modify it either with canisters or diy cyclone so the bags will come off anyway. The seller didn’t have 220V power to test, so I tested it out once I got home as the extension cord had just enough length for me to plug it and and test it. It’s moving a lot of air!

The seller also had a new in box Delta 50-568 3 speed air cleaner that he practically gave me. I wasn’t in the market for an air cleaner, but have worked in shops with them in the past and they can come in handy and help in a supplemental way during heavy machine use, so that was a nice bonus.

Now the real work begins to shuffle stuff around enough to make a new home for this dust collector, spend some money, time and energy on the upgrades and hopefully have it set up and running in a month or two.

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[james manutes]

Congrats . If you make a cyclone or not . thats a good pick up .