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Thread: Epilog Fusion Pro 48 vs Trotec Speedy 400

  1. #1

    Question Epilog Fusion Pro 48 vs Trotec Speedy 400

    My company is looking to invest in a laser machine and have narrowed it down to an Epilog Fusion Pro 48 and Trotec Speedy 400. We're looking at an 80W CO2 option with no fiber, but maybe a 120W is a better longterm investment. Initial use case is engraving many small parts (anodized aluminum), but the larger bed sizes seem to provide quite a bit of flexibility as other projects come our way. We've tested out both machines and at least 30W is required for our initial use case, but the higher wattage seems like it would be helpful for other projects in the future, like vector cutting. The machine would be used in a production setting so dependability, support and longevity are top concerns. These machines are expensive, but that's not too much of a concern. Pricing is similar for both machines.

    Both machines seem really well built and support seems solid for both. The Trotec seems like it may have a slight advantage in build quality, but the larger bed size, integrated camera positioning / registration system, networking capabilities, etc. are pushing us towards the Epilog. Trotec's factory rep is 5 minutes from our facility, while Epilog's dealer is 1.5 hours away (I wouldn't expect to see them very often, so not sure that should be a deciding factor). We'll be using a lot of jigs for the parts so the camera systems isn't as big of a deal right now, but is definitely nice for non-jig production versus eyeballing a red dot on the Trotec.

    We've looks at the Speedy 360 and Fusion Pro 32 and they would definitely work for our use case, but for a little extra the upgrade to the large bed sizes wasn't that much.

    Any feedback or thoughts would be appreciated to help make a decision, especially if you have experience with these machines. Thanks!

  2. #2
    I don't have either of those machines, but my old Epilog Legend (6000) is closing in on 20 years old... with the same tube going strong. It eats display screens tho. I gave up trying to run it with a functional display screen. Known issue with that model from what I can tell. X-axis motor started dying at one point, too. Bad/sticky bearing. Not bad for 18 years of service. I probably could have rebuilt it but wound up just ordering another from Epilog because I was crunched for time.

    Epilog's service has been really great to me. I bought the machine at a government auction and was missing the plexiglass lid and handle. They sent me a slightly scratched one, no charge even though I wasn't the original owner.

    Anyways. That's my .02 of only slightly related information.

  3. #3
    Thanks for the insights! 20 years is impressive! Good to know about Epilog's service level, especially for a preowned machine. Even if you had to purchase parts, it doesn't seem like Epilog charges an arm and leg.

  4. #4
    If you're engraving many small anodized parts, do give serious consideration to spending $3500 and buying a cheap fiber laser. Or an expensive one I have 3 cheap ones, and some of the small anodized parts I engrave at $1.50 each (75c per place, two places), one day with my daughter engraving side 1 on one machine and handing it off to me to run side 2, we completed 275 pieces in 44 minutes. These machines are blazing fast. In another thread about various Aztec calendar artwork, I downloaded this Star Wars version, which is incredibly detailed. In the pic is a 3" diameter version where I laser etched all the lines-
    swars.jpg
    --took 19.3 seconds. (this pic will enlarge twice)

    Very rare these days I etch anodized aluminum with a C02 laser, just large items.

    That all said-- I've been a Gravograph man since the '70's, but I'm a loner here in that regard, but I will say that if you haven't yet, look at them at least.

    As far as Epilog v Trotec, based solely on responses from users on this board, one in particular with both machines, I would give the nod to Trotec...
    ========================================
    ELEVEN - rotary cutter tool machines
    FOUR - CO2 lasers
    THREE - fiber lasers
    ONE - vinyl cutter
    CASmate, Corel, Gravostyle


  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Kev Williams View Post
    If you're engraving many small anodized parts, do give serious consideration to spending $3500 and buying a cheap fiber laser. Or an expensive one I have 3 cheap ones, and some of the small anodized parts I engrave at $1.50 each (75c per place, two places), one day with my daughter engraving side 1 on one machine and handing it off to me to run side 2, we completed 275 pieces in 44 minutes. These machines are blazing fast. In another thread about various Aztec calendar artwork, I downloaded this Star Wars version, which is incredibly detailed. In the pic is a 3" diameter version where I laser etched all the lines-
    swars.jpg
    --took 19.3 seconds. (this pic will enlarge twice)

    Very rare these days I etch anodized aluminum with a C02 laser, just large items.

    That all said-- I've been a Gravograph man since the '70's, but I'm a loner here in that regard, but I will say that if you haven't yet, look at them at least.

    As far as Epilog v Trotec, based solely on responses from users on this board, one in particular with both machines, I would give the nod to Trotec...
    I love the idea of investing a galvo fiber at some point in the future. Definitely seems like you can't beat the speed of a galvo fiber for metals. Seems like a better investment than a gantry fiber, of which you can add fiber to the Epilog Fusion Pro and Trotec Speedy. Even though the initial use case is for anodized aluminum, we want to be open to engraving and cutting other materials (i.e. wood, cardboard, plastics, etc.) in the near future.

    There seems to be fair amount of reviews on the Trotec Speedy 400, but not much on the Epilog Fusion Pro on the forums (maybe it's too new?). Didn't see any posts like what you're referring to. Trotec seems to be popular on this forum.

    Will check out Gravograph! Thanks for the reference.

  6. #6
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    I am a Trotec fan but my first laser engraver was an Epilog.

    Not sure about the speed of the Epilog but I recently was told that the Speedy 400 is capable of 170 inches per second (ips) and that is incredibly fast. My Speedy 300 80 watt is capable of 150 ips and the speed was part of my decision to go with Trotec. I cut my average plaque production time down from:

    Epilog 35 watt - 24 minutes per plaque.
    Xenetec 60 watt - 12 minutes per plaque
    Trotec 80 watt - 4 minutes per plaque

    The increase in wattage is certainly part of the equation but the speed is more valuable than you think. We compared several machine of equal wattage a few years ago and the numbers we came up with proved that the speed was relevant to production time in that it made the difference between two machine of the same wattage.

    The pictures below were sent to me a couple days ago from David Stevens of Trotec. They were both done with a Trotec 400 120 watt machine. Cutting half inch Corian is not an easy task, in fact I can't cut 1/2" Corian with my 80 watt unless I make a large number of passes. The Speedy 400 120 watt is the machine I would purchase if I was in the market today.

    Good luck with your purchase.
    Last edited by Keith Outten; 07-29-2020 at 5:34 PM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Outten View Post
    I am a Trotec fan but my first laser engraver was an Epilog.

    Not sure about the speed of the Epilog but I recently was told that the Speedy 400 is capable of 170 inches per second (ips) and that is incredibly fast. My Speedy 300 80 watt is capable of 150 ips and the speed was part of my decision to go with Trotec. I cut my average plaque production time down from:

    Epilog 35 watt - 24 minutes per plaque.
    Xenetec 60 watt - 12 minutes per plaque
    Trotec 80 watt - 4 minutes per plaque

    The increase in wattage is certainly part of the equation but the speed is more valuable than you think. We compared several machine of equal wattage a few years ago and the numbers we came up with proved that the speed was relevant to production time in that it made the difference between two machine of the same wattage.

    The pictures below were sent to me a couple days ago from David Stevens of Trotec. They were both done with a Trotec 400 120 watt machine. Cutting half inch Corian is not an easy task, in fact I can't cut 1/2" Corian with my 80 watt unless I make a large number of passes. The Speedy 400 120 watt is the machine I would purchase if I was in the market today.

    Good luck with your purchase.
    Thanks for the insights, Keith!

    Speeds seem pretty similar between the two, Epilog at 165 ips and the Speedy 400 at 170 ips; both are at 5g acceleration.

    Build quality and service seems on par for both, so I guess it comes down to features, which is where the Epilogs Fusion Pros come ahead. Doesn't seem like we can go wrong with either one. We don't have a particular use case for 120 watts, but seems like a good investment. Looks like these machines hold their value quite well.

  8. #8
    I've used Epilog extensively and owned Universal and I'm now on my second Trotec. If I were in the market, it would definitely be a Trotec. Build quality, reliability, tech support all number one in my view. That's after 23 years of laser engraving.
    Mike Null

    St. Louis Laser, Inc.

    Trotec Speedy 300, 80 watt
    Woodworking shop CLTT and Laser Sublimation
    Evolis Card Printer
    CorelDraw X5

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Null View Post
    I've used Epilog extensively and owned Universal and I'm now on my second Trotec. If I were in the market, it would definitely be a Trotec. Build quality, reliability, tech support all number one in my view. That's after 23 years of laser engraving.
    Thanks for the feedback, Mike! Definitely seems like Trotec is recommended the most on here.

    Would be interesting to see if anyone owns an Epilog Fusion Pro to see how their experience has been.

  10. #10
    So I was having this exact debate earlier this year. I did a lot of research and read a lot of this forum. I almost went with the Speedy because of how well recommended Trotec was here. But I did end up going with the 80w Fusion PRO 48. I was nervous because it was a newer model and there were not a lot of reviews but the camera intrigued me and I liked the larger bed size (originally looking at the 32 but was a no brainer when I saw them in person and compared prices vs advantage of a larger bed). It is HUGE though so make sure you have the space. I talked to both companies significantly and went to the last NBM trade show before the big shut down to compare them side-by-side. I almost went the “whoever gives me the better deal” route because I found them that comparable. I liked that Epilog was a US based company and it’s headquarters are 10ish hours from me (and being from rural Montana, that is defined as close... especially for laser system companies). I liked the camera system and understood its limitations. Speed seemed negligible for the new Fusion PRO 48 vs the Speedy and (to me, as a newbie) the companies both seemed great with customer service, technical support and quality of build. Disclaimer: I’ve only been running for a few weeks and it definitely has its challenges. My lens had a tiny spot on it (whether from me or otherwise) and I may have ruined a manual focus gauge within my first week (that was entirely my fault)... they overnighted me new parts and then the tech guys spent time with me going through how to solve my crappy settings issues... because I’m new and like to mess things up. The camera is AWESOME. It has made me thankful for choosing the Fusion PRO. I can focus the bed, take a snapshot of something randomly shaped, import that into Corel to do a trace for a jig/place artwork, delete the camera photo and print. And it prints right where I want it to. You DO basically have to be right under the camera to get an accurate “just place artwork on and push print”, but the little red laser outline helps make sure it didn’t stray off course. To me, the rotary seems better on the trotec if that is a factor. Also, I am not an engineer/tinkering person and I heard Epilog’s systems are “simpler”. That is both good and bad. If you like to control everything and play with settings to get it just so, Trotec is probably your machine from what I hear. Their software is very powerful and can do a lot more than most people know. I would just mess up settings, not know what I did and keep ending up talking to tech support. Maybe once I am more experienced that would lean my decision in the other direction. Also, Trotec’s settings follow the same format as all the Chinese lasers in mm/s and Epilog just does speed with % so it is a little harder taking some else’s settings and trying to figure it out how it translates.

    Take my my experience with a grain of salt because I am new, the machine is new, and these guys on this forum have a lot more experience. ... I make a lot of assumptions. But I do love my Fusion so far and don’t regret my purchase. I based my decision on what I felt I needed/wanted and what I thought I would be doing. I don’t think either of these machines and companies would be a bad choice and it will just come down to what you want or personal preferences. Turns out, I really wanted the camera. Haha

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarah Fischer View Post
    So I was having this exact debate earlier this year. I did a lot of research and read a lot of this forum. I almost went with the Speedy because of how well recommended Trotec was here. But I did end up going with the 80w Fusion PRO 48. I was nervous because it was a newer model and there were not a lot of reviews but the camera intrigued me and I liked the larger bed size (originally looking at the 32 but was a no brainer when I saw them in person and compared prices vs advantage of a larger bed). It is HUGE though so make sure you have the space. I talked to both companies significantly and went to the last NBM trade show before the big shut down to compare them side-by-side. I almost went the “whoever gives me the better deal” route because I found them that comparable. I liked that Epilog was a US based company and it’s headquarters are 10ish hours from me (and being from rural Montana, that is defined as close... especially for laser system companies). I liked the camera system and understood its limitations. Speed seemed negligible for the new Fusion PRO 48 vs the Speedy and (to me, as a newbie) the companies both seemed great with customer service, technical support and quality of build. Disclaimer: I’ve only been running for a few weeks and it definitely has its challenges. My lens had a tiny spot on it (whether from me or otherwise) and I may have ruined a manual focus gauge within my first week (that was entirely my fault)... they overnighted me new parts and then the tech guys spent time with me going through how to solve my crappy settings issues... because I’m new and like to mess things up. The camera is AWESOME. It has made me thankful for choosing the Fusion PRO. I can focus the bed, take a snapshot of something randomly shaped, import that into Corel to do a trace for a jig/place artwork, delete the camera photo and print. And it prints right where I want it to. You DO basically have to be right under the camera to get an accurate “just place artwork on and push print”, but the little red laser outline helps make sure it didn’t stray off course. To me, the rotary seems better on the trotec if that is a factor. Also, I am not an engineer/tinkering person and I heard Epilog’s systems are “simpler”. That is both good and bad. If you like to control everything and play with settings to get it just so, Trotec is probably your machine from what I hear. Their software is very powerful and can do a lot more than most people know. I would just mess up settings, not know what I did and keep ending up talking to tech support. Maybe once I am more experienced that would lean my decision in the other direction. Also, Trotec’s settings follow the same format as all the Chinese lasers in mm/s and Epilog just does speed with % so it is a little harder taking some else’s settings and trying to figure it out how it translates.

    Take my my experience with a grain of salt because I am new, the machine is new, and these guys on this forum have a lot more experience. ... I make a lot of assumptions. But I do love my Fusion so far and don’t regret my purchase. I based my decision on what I felt I needed/wanted and what I thought I would be doing. I don’t think either of these machines and companies would be a bad choice and it will just come down to what you want or personal preferences. Turns out, I really wanted the camera. Haha
    Thanks so much for the insights, Sarah! The Fusion Pros are certainly feature packed for a very similar price. Agree that the camera systems is super intriguing and there isn't a comparable for Trotec, unfortunately. Great to hear about your support experience with Epilog.

  12. #12
    Mike Null

    St. Louis Laser, Inc.

    Trotec Speedy 300, 80 watt
    Woodworking shop CLTT and Laser Sublimation
    Evolis Card Printer
    CorelDraw X5

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