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Thread: Natural Polishing Stones

  1. #1

    Natural Polishing Stones

    Oh no, not another sharpening thread, but as this seems to be the week for sharpening threads I'll add another.

    I use natural stones for polishing as do a couple of other Creekers but from reading some of the sharpening posts I suspect most use synthetic water stones for polishing their chisels and cutters. My question is several fold: First is the simple one, do you use synthetic water stones or natural stones like Arkansas oil stones or JNATs for polishing your cutters?

    The second question is why do you use the one you use?

    I'll start:

    I use either a Hard Surgical Black Arkansas oil stone or a medium hard JNAT to polish. The reason is from experience and having examined a range of polished chisels and plane cutters the surface left by a natural stone is smoother than that left by the synthetic stones I've used.

    Again there is no correct answer, I'm just curious what folks use and why.

    As always YMMV.

    ken

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
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    I use Suehiro dual stones. I started out with two very traditional Japanese water stones — a Hida 1000 grit and a King 6000. When Stu was running his Japanese tool store I saw and became fascinated with the Dual Stones; they are ceramic stones advertised as being able to be used with either oil or water. They work great but not sure any different than any other ceramic stone (other than I’m using oil).

    I must admit that the aspect of natural stones you mention also has had me curious. However, since I have a lot of A2 steel, natural oil stones would seem be to out. I’m not sure about the large investment that a jnat would involve for that curiosity; though the TAD is strong in this one.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    Columbus, Ohio, USA
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    I usually use my Shapton Glass 16K stone because it is what I have been using so I am accustomed to it.

    I now have some Arkansas stones from Dan's and sometimes I use that, but I am more likely to use that outside my normal routine since I am not as used to using them.

  4. #4
    Ken, I have far too many stones. But the polishing stones I use for O1 & Japanese steel are the Sigma Power Ceramic (not the Select II) 13K and a JNAT Tomoe that's medium hard. For HSS and A2 I'll use Dan's Black Arkansas or the Spyderco (for now) Ultra Fine. I may get a Sigma Select II 10K for HSS/A2 steel down the road if I sell the Spyderco.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Stone Mountain, GA
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    751
    India and Arkansas stones. I used to use waterstones but moved to a shop with no sink, and even no-soak waterstones still need quite a bit of water for flattening and rinsing off swarf. I could have managed with a stone pond or something but didn't feel like doing all of that.

    Specifically, I use a coarse/fine India stones (really only use the fine side, it's the first stone used in the progression). Cuts pretty well, stays flat, nuff said. I do scuff it with a diamond plate occasionally to keep it from getting too fine/slow.

    Then a Natural Whetstone Soft Arkansas - these were recommended as being cheap and fast cutting, whereas Dan's soft arks could be a bit too fine/slow cutting for what you want a medium stone to do, plus more expensive.

    I finish with a Dan's Translucent ark. These are pricey but it was flat and fine cutting from the get-go. Feels like sharpening directly on glass.


    I use these on all carbon steels, including Japanese white steel. I have a couple of A2 and V11 blades, for those I substitute the trans ark with a Syperdco UF ceramic. I'd give that stone an honorable mention as a synthetic stone that feels like a hard natural stone, but capable of cutting more alloyed steels.

    I'm not sure if you get a better edge from natural stones, but in any case it's a very good edge. I think mainly I've come to like hard stones and whenever I use synthetic waterstones now they feel gummy and strange.

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Ken, please don't apologize for another sharpening thread. I admire pragmatic woodworkers who adhere to the "sharpen quickly and get back to work school – that superfine edge is going to be gone anyway after a couple passes anyway". However I'm perfectly willing to invest a completely unreasonably impractical, disproportionate amount of time/effort in sharpening. I confess to being hopelessly obsessed with achieving the "perfect edge". if someone said stropping with butterfly wings was the secret, I be out in the backyard right with a butterfly net right now.

    I acquired most of my plane blades some years ago and at that time my preference was for A2 in hopes of the longer-lasting edge. Since then I've also bought some PMV blades. I've been mostly satisfied sharpening these with synthetic water stones (Sigma, Shapton, etc.) and occasionally stropping with hard Maple/green rouge. In recent years I shifted more tool wooden planes with 01 blades and my completely subjective impression is I can get the 01 sharper. The O1 edge doesn't last as long as the A2/PMV, but to me definitely seems sharper fresh off the stone. Just my impression YMMV.

    I don't have any experience with oil stones or Japanese natural polishing stones, although I'm guessing after this thread I'm definitely headed in that direction. My question is how do you these stones work on A2 and PMV steels? All advice and suggestions are appreciated. I'm getting my popcorn started now.

    Best, Mike

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
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    Lafayette, CA
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    832
    As readers of recent sharpening thread know, I use Norton (artificial) waterstones. The reasons are threefold:
    (1) I did not want to own "too many" stones, like Orlando (sorry, Orlando).
    (2) I wanted something I could master fully and use easily.
    (3) David Charlesworth took the time to patiently explain their use in his simple, repeatable system, giving me confidence I could achieve goal (2) and avoid the downside of reason (1).

    I am happy to say my goals have been met.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Allen1010 View Post
    Ken, please don't apologize for another sharpening thread. I admire pragmatic woodworkers who adhere to the "sharpen quickly and get back to work school – that superfine edge is going to be gone anyway after a couple passes anyway". However I'm perfectly willing to invest a completely unreasonably impractical, disproportionate amount of time/effort in sharpening. I confess to being hopelessly obsessed with achieving the "perfect edge". if someone said stropping with butterfly wings was the secret, I be out in the backyard right with a butterfly net right now.

    I acquired most of my plane blades some years ago and at that time my preference was for A2 in hopes of the longer-lasting edge. Since then I've also bought some PMV blades. I've been mostly satisfied sharpening these with synthetic water stones (Sigma, Shapton, etc.) and occasionally stropping with hard Maple/green rouge. In recent years I shifted more tool wooden planes with 01 blades and my completely subjective impression is I can get the 01 sharper. The O1 edge doesn't last as long as the A2/PMV, but to me definitely seems sharper fresh off the stone. Just my impression YMMV.

    I don't have any experience with oil stones or Japanese natural polishing stones, although I'm guessing after this thread I'm definitely headed in that direction. My question is how do you these stones work on A2 and PMV steels? All advice and suggestions are appreciated. I'm getting my popcorn started now.

    Best, Mike

    Mike,

    I understand, I'm in the sharpen quickly and get back to work school but, and it is a big but, when not on a project I sure spend a lot of time both thinking about and sharpening my irons.

    I only have a couple of PM cutters, they sharpen easily on either Ark or JNAT. That said I do not use PM often. Unless you keep very narrow micro bevels A2 doesn't work easily on natural stones. If you would like I will ship you a JNAT stone to play with or even better show up at my door with some iron in hand and I'll buy the tacos and beer. Sweet Maggie Dog will share her bedroom .

    ken

    P.S. PM me your address if you would like to try a stone.
    Last edited by ken hatch; 07-27-2020 at 3:15 PM. Reason: add PM request

  9. #9
    Thanks guys for taking the time. As has been pointed out many times there is no correct way other than just do it but I find it interesting to see the different ways to reach the goal.

    BTW, I think my way is the best but I expect everyone else feels the same about their process,

    ken

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    Longview WA
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    First is the simple one, do you use synthetic water stones or natural stones like Arkansas oil stones or JNATs for polishing your cutters?

    The second question is why do you use the one you use?
    My water stone for polishing is a Norton 8000. Before this it was a King 4000.

    My oilstone for polishing is now a Dan's Whetestones Black Arkansas. For gouges and molding plane blades a Dan's translucent Arkansas is used for final polishing. There is an Arkansas stone purchased at a Gem & Mineral gathering that is an amazing polishing stone. There is also a small piece of jasper used for polishing at times.

    As to why, the Norton stone was purchased at a Lie-Nielsen Tool Event in Oakland, CA many years ago. It was more convenient than purchasing online. At the time my finest stone was a King 4000 which is a fine stone able to produce a keen edge.

    Oilstones didn't work well for me until after learning to sharpen with water stones. It is amazing how knowing what your doing can help to get it done.

    It is usually easier to get a full day in the shop during the winter months. The water in my stone pond would often be frozen. My solution was to use oilstones.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
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    My current polishing stone is a 12000 shapton pro, although I don't always even go there stopping at 8k happens. I like water stones, they cut faster and in general I find sharpening to be a necessary evil that I find little to no enjoyment from. I also do not strop.

    I know, I'm evil and do it all wrong.
    ~mike

    happy in my mud hut

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Central TX
    Posts
    75
    Hello all, really enjoying this and the other sharpening threads. I'm relatively new to sharpening and have a cheap double-sided water stone and strop that (surprisingly?) get all my steel sharpened up just fine - shaves hair and slices paper and all that. I'll also note that I sharpen often but I'm not particularly "into" it, just get it done and get back to work. At least at this point I don't intend to spend many hundreds of dollars on sharpening equipment.

    I too work in a space without plumbing, so while my current setup works okay I'd like to move to something that doesn't require water. The world of natural and oil stones is totally new to me though (and seemingly complicated), and I really don't know where to start on sussing out a system that would work for me. My questions are 1) is there an authoritative source or thread(s) that I could read through that explains the world of natural and oilstones? And 2) do you have suggestions for a reasonably-priced system/set of stones that doesn't use water?

    Thanks in advance, I'm hope I'm not coming off as wanting you to reproduce a bunch of info that already exists - I'm just a bit lost and looking for a nudge in the right direction. Much appreciated!

  13. #13
    Daniel,

    Go to Dan's site https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=dan%27s+arkansas+sharpening+stones for stones. A good start would be a soft Ark 8"X2"X1/2" for $29.51 USD and a Black Ark the same size for $102.23 USD. then go to some place like Amazon for a Med India for $26.58 USD and you will be set for life. The only stone you might wear out would be the med India. Some times it is good to strop, there are too many options to go through but almost any piece of leather on a board will work.

    For any sharpening you need to be able to grind (the med India), hone (the soft Ark), and polish the Black Ark). Learn on a 2" wide stone it will teach you to use the whole stone.

    If money is a problem you could go with the Hard Ark for $36.97 instead of the Black Ark. While I have never used that stone I have the Norton Hard White Ark stone and if I were to use it as a final stone I would also use a strop with green stuff.

    ken

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
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    SE Michigan
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    3,222
    Oh, no no no am I going to let this innocent little question take me down that JNAT rat hole . Oh sure, would love to have a bunch gifted to me to go into some zen sharpening session with the wife yelling downstairs “it’s 2a.m., stop that danged stritching sound!!!!”. Please post a long video of using these stones, so I can, at the very least, live through you.

    In all seriousness, they would be fun to try, but the diamond stones and ceramic finishing stone is getting me to curling end grain. Although, I must admit, the diamond stones are about to hit the can, because I find them terribly unflat.

    So, if you find yourself at DTW training some rookie right seater to land in a midwest snow storm, bring a few stones. I’ll get you a beer and a Mexican dinner downtown. Then we can sharpen, my friend.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Mueller View Post
    Oh, no no no am I going to let this innocent little question take me down that JNAT rat hole . Oh sure, would love to have a bunch gifted to me to go into some zen sharpening session with the wife yelling downstairs “it’s 2a.m., stop that danged stritching sound!!!!”. Please post a long video of using these stones, so I can, at the very least, live through you.

    In all seriousness, they would be fun to try, but the diamond stones and ceramic finishing stone is getting me to curling end grain. Although, I must admit, the diamond stones are about to hit the can, because I find them terribly unflat.

    So, if you find yourself at DTW training some rookie right seater to land in a midwest snow storm, bring a few stones. I’ll get you a beer and a Mexican dinner downtown. Then we can sharpen, my friend.

    Phil,

    Would love to but as life would have it I'm retiring in 6 months. As the saying goes, don't fix it if it ain't broken. I'm not a fan of diamond stones other than for grinding and for that the only ones I've found that work are the Atoma plates.

    ken

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