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Thread: Dust collection feedback

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    Dust collection feedback

    Hi everyone,

    I'm trying to plan for dust collection when I get new woodworking equipment over the next several months. I'm leaning towards a slider, 20" bandsaw, and jointer/planer combo. I'd be running only one machine at a time, and need to figure out dust collection, which would be on a separate circuit.

    I've read the specs for the minimum required airflow for dust extraction, but I realize that something around the minimum might not cut it.

    Wondering about the good/bad/ugly from those who have done this already.

    Do you disconnect/connect to a given machine using a single hose?

    Or do you open/close blast gates, and if so, are you satisfied with the results?

    Anything else that should be considered?

    Thanks in advance -

  2. #2
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    Your big chip maker is your J/P but the slider can also benefit from "more than minimum" if you'll be collecting from both the blade shroud and an overhead guard. To help you understand things more clearly, think about it this way: Dust collection is all about moving air. The more air you move (measured in cubic feet per minute or CFM) the more effective the dust and chip collection will be. This applies to both the collector doing the work and the duct work between it and the dust/chip source. While I "get away" with a 2hp Oneida cyclone for similar machinery like you mention (slider, J/P and bandsaw, among other tools) the additional air flow from the next step up would probably benefit my setup noticeably. For duct work, the minimum acceptable duct diameter these days is pretty much slated at 6". Your tools likely have 120mm ports which is just under 5". My cyclone has a 7" inlet and next step up will typically have an 8" inlet. And yes, I open the gate for the tool I'm using and keep all others closed. You'd need a really large system to be able to run with multiple machine gates open.

    BTW, any dust collector that can handle what you need for your tools is going to need a dedicated circuit. Don't put that circuit in until you have the actual system at least on order and know the electrical specifications.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  3. #3
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    Thanks for your reply, Jim - highly informative as usual.


    The DC I'm considering has a 140mm port, so that's about 5.5", and is 3HP.


    THe bandsaw has 2 x 120mm ports, need to verify the others.


    The specs don't reference CFM, but instead reference:


    Nominal Air Flow @ 20 m/sec. [m3/h*]: 1100
    Nominal Pressure [Pa]: 2200
    Maximum Air flow @ 20 m/sec. [m3/h*]: 4000
    Pressure @ Maximum air flow [Pa]: 900


    I'm sure there's some type of metric conversion that can be applied to arrive at CFM


    I'm not 100% clear on that last part of your message - are you saying that a DC port of 5.5" would be more efficient with duct work of 7" or 8", as opposed to 6"?


    Also curious about the pros/cons of different types of materials for the duct work.

  4. #4
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    CFM or CM/h are similar measurements just using a different unit. "The more the better" still applies.

    As far as ductwork, you'll have to see what's available in your geography for the sizing you have. Your machinery dealer may be able to point you on that.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    I presume you’re looking at a Felder RL140, which will be fine for a saw with a 120 and an 80mm port.

    It will also be fine with the J/P.

    Bandsaws in general don’t have as effective a dust collection design as a circular saw however the RL140 will be fine unless you have unusually long and convoluted duct runs.

    Reducing the pipe length, number of elbows and length of flex will help your system perform as well as possible.

    For J/P’s I always recommend polyurethane highly flexible hose with a right angle connector at the machine, I also recommend that if you have a saw/shaper for the shaper hood/saw cabinet hose.

    Sounds like you’re going to have a nice shop......Rod.

  6. #6
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    Thanks, Rod - appreciate your feedback.

  7. #7
    Like Jim, I ran a 2 hp Oneida cyclone for many years in a 24'x30' shop with similar gear as yours, and it was adequate.. I upgraded to a 3hp unit when I installed a cnc router in an addition. 5 hp would be even better. My main trunk is 7" with 6" branches, then tapered down to fit the machine ports. Oneida may still do duct design if you order a new system. Here is a guide that will help design a duct system yourself https://airhand.com/designing/.

    26 gauge spiral pipe is fairly easy to work with, strong,easily grounded and available at hvac suppliers. Fittings may be best sourced online. Long tapers are better than short ones. Elbows should have a centerline radius 1.5 times the pipe diameter. Hex head self-tapping screws hold the joints together and silicone around the outside seals them up reliably. Stay away from duct tape and don't put sealant in the joints in case you ever want to take them apart.

    Blast gates are the way to go for convenience. I like the self-cleaning ones as the regular type can get the slides clogged and leak with much use (perhaps not a worry in a one man shop).

    If you are returning air to the shop, be sure you have adequate filtration. Bag filters are easy to keep clean if you have the space. If you use cartridge filters you need to avoid clogging them as they are miserable to clean. You may want to add a bin sensor.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Jenness View Post
    ..Hex head self-tapping screws hold the joints together and silicone around the outside seals them up reliably. Stay away from duct tape and don't put sealant in the joints in case you ever want to take them apart...
    I have to take some exception to this. The tape supplied by The Blastgate Co. is very effective at sealing the joints. It is a vinyl material, 1 1/4" wide and sticks very well to a clean surface. It also can be easily removed unlike the thin aluminum stuff found most often. Rivets are also an excellent alternative to sheet metal screws. They're not that more difficult to install and don't stick out from the pipe as much. They can also be covered up (sealed) by the tape if placed close to the joint.

  9. #9
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    I generally use the tape, but where there is some extra stress anticipated in a particular situation, I"ll use pop rivets or screws to reinforce the joint(s) accordingly. The tape is fine for the majority of a system in my experience, at least in the small shop like most of us here.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    I generally use the tape, but where there is some extra stress anticipated in a particular situation, I"ll use pop rivets or screws to reinforce the joint(s) accordingly. The tape is fine for the majority of a system in my experience, at least in the small shop like most of us here.

    Hmmm ... never thought of just using tape for the joints if that's what you're implying. My installation as referred to above used both rivets and tape at all joints.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Mathews View Post
    Hmmm ... never thought of just using tape for the joints if that's what you're implying. My installation as referred to above used both rivets and tape at all joints.
    I have found the foil tape to be pretty amazing for any and all the joints that "don't move". Every system is different where the stress points are. Keep those rigid and the rest should be fine. In my experience, of course, but others might have a different opinion.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    I have found the foil tape to be pretty amazing for any and all the joints that "don't move". Every system is different where the stress points are. Keep those rigid and the rest should be fine. In my experience, of course, but others might have a different opinion.
    I'm surprised Jim. You were the one that led me to The Blastgate Co. but you didn't use their recommended tape.

  13. #13
    By "duct tape" I meant the readily available cheap stuff that turns into dust after 10 or 15 years. Short sheet metal screws are easy to drive as well as remove. Whatever fastening and sealing method is used should be both long lasting and easily reversible as shop arrangements (mine at least) can change over time. If you expect lots of changes Nordfab makes a nice clamp-together system ($$).

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Jenness View Post
    If you expect lots of changes Nordfab makes a nice clamp-together system ($$).
    BlastGateCo also has a clamp together solution, and it's compatible (ie, will connect to) the Nordfab products. It's about 25% cheaper than Nordfab.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Mills View Post
    BlastGateCo also has a clamp together solution, and it's compatible (ie, will connect to) the Nordfab products. It's about 25% cheaper than Nordfab.
    It may be more than 25% cheaper than Nordfab based on their recent price drops. If I had to do my install all over again I would go with their clamp together system. I don't do this often but I would highly recommend The Blastgate Co. for their excellent products and service.

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