Had the most pleasant shopping experience yesterday--

[Kev Williams]

Sweden has been taking the 'let the chips fall where they may' approach to covid-19, whereas their Nordic neighbors have been taking a more social-distancing approach.
Let's see how well this has been turning out for Sweden-

cvc.jpg cvd.jpg

-note that Sweden's population is only double that of Norway, Denmark and Finland:
Sweden--- 10.23 million
Denmark-- 5.8 million
Norway--- 5.37 million
Finland---- 5.518 million
-so even cutting the long blue lines in half, the difference is significant--

Pure real world results of 3 countries taking masks and social distancing seriously, and the one who didn't.

Proof enough for small minded-me

[Michael Weber]

I read the article Robert’s first link referred to. The conclusions are indeterminate with various results from different facilities. It certainly doesn’t seem to clear the way for wholesale school reopening. “ In fact, two preprints have reported that children with COVID-19 symptoms can have similar levels of viral RNA to adults. “Based on these results, we have to caution against an unlimited re-opening of schools and kindergartens in the present situation. Children may be as infectious as adults” Unfortunately the second link doesn’t work for me.

[Jim Koepke]

I read the article Robert’s first link referred to. The conclusions are indeterminate with various results from different facilities. It certainly doesn’t seem to clear the way for wholesale school reopening. “ In fact, two preprints have reported that children with COVID-19 symptoms can have similar levels of viral RNA to adults. “Based on these results, we have to caution against an unlimited re-opening of schools and kindergartens in the present situation. Children may be as infectious as adults” Unfortunately the second link doesn’t work for me.

The first link is an article from a few months ago.

The second article was found by searching on > COVID-19 in Children and the Dynamics of Infection in Families <

The synopsis is the science is not quite settled. The infection rates may be lower. This would only affect me by two of my neighbors school age children passing me while walking to the mailbox. It might also cause more public transmission while shopping for groceries.

What is needed is a nationwide coordinated policy to stop the spread of this virus. Unfortunately in the current state of the general public there are still too many people who think this is all a hoax and will not go along with any effort to suppress this pandemic.

jtk

[Brian Elfert]

I'm surprised there is no way to get reviews or data on buying masks. Data like fit, breathability, and virus particle filtration would help. The n95 is proven but still unavailable. I wear surgical masks, but I'd like something with more protection.

I doubt you'll find any mask available for purchase that has any real particle filtration. N95 masks are mostly going to medical use and any that actually make it to retail are snapped up immediately. If a mask was as good as an N95 medical facilities and/or the public would be buying them up. There are some KN95 masks out there for purchase.

Cloth masks are not intended to protect the wearer. They are intended to protect others around you from getting the virus from you if you unknowingly have it. The idea is that the spittle and such that comes from your mouth and nose will be filtered by the mask.

[Brian Elfert]

Needed to go to Walmart for a few things. They implemented a mandatory mask rule last weekend. When I pulled into the parking lot first thing I noticed was there was barely half as many cars than normal, maybe less. The south doors were locked, entry/exit from the north doors only. Went in, grabbed my cart and wiped it down as I normally do, and went shopping.

Everyone was wearing. Place was only half full, plenty of move-around room, shelves were well stocked for the most part, checkout lines were minimal...

I had a far different experience at Walmart today. I went in early afternoon and the parking lot was as full as ever. They had two employees in black shirts outside at the entrance enforcing the mask rule. No idea why they are making them stand outside in the heat.

[Michael Weber]

Thanks Jim. https://pediatrics.aappublications.o...peds.2020-1576
i Read the article. I hope it’s accurate despite its limited scope. I will point out that the authors say “ with most pediatric cases described inside familial clusters6 and no documentation of child-to-child or child-to-adult transmission.7,8” The three comments to the article are interesting as well.

[mike stenson]

Cloth masks are not intended to protect the wearer. They are intended to protect others around you from getting the virus from you if you unknowingly have it. The idea is that the spittle and such that comes from your mouth and nose will be filtered by the mask.

Yep. Some in depth information on how this works from a reliable source.

https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/5.0015044

[Michael Weber]

Yep. Some in depth information on how this works from a reliable source.

https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/5.0015044

Thanks. Now I have a headache.

[Jim Becker]

As testing and infection rates increase, the tune is changing relative to younger folks including kids. This is an evolving, moving thing and even quality scientific writing from just a month or three ago may not represent reality. That's why there is such a major concern relative to opening schools, some of which start in only a couple of weeks, including those in the current national hot-spot, Florida. Infection rates are higher than were expected and while mortality rate is certainly lower, there are some funky and terrible things happening to some kids. You also have the risk for teachers and staff as well as for family members. This is a very complex thing. Right now, masks and distancing are pretty much the only available way to help reduce transmission until vaccine trials run their course. Fortunately, at least two of them are showing very promising results in Phase One and Phase Two trials and one is about to enter into Phase Three with 30K participants. They are getting immune response that also includes positive T-cell behaviors, at least in the short term. Whether the same response holds for the longer term is yet to be determined.

[mike stenson]

Thanks. Now I have a headache.

Sorry, maybe I should have warned you.. I'm an engineer.

[Kev Williams]

Out of all those words in that article, these stood out to me:

Although both surgical and N95 masks decelerate the turbulent jet, none of them will prevent the droplets entirely from penetrating or escaping the mask, i.e., droplet transmission.

So, masks aren't perfectly sealed-- By now most of us are aware of this. Bullet-proof vests won't stop all bullets, but rare is the cop who won't wear one in a situation where bullets may fly. Regardless of however imperfect masks may be, they are at the very least a barrier, even if a crappy one. Put 2 crappy barriers in use against one another and they start to act like 1 decent barrier.

ANY barrier is better than no barrier. Even a screen door will stop 50 to 80% of airflow

[Bill Dufour]

I had a far different experience at Walmart today. I went in early afternoon and the parking lot was as full as ever. They had two employees in black shirts outside at the entrance enforcing the mask rule. No idea why they are making them stand outside in the heat.

I bet it wasn't really that hot. Probably below 100 there. The box stores were counting people in and out with limits on how many inside at any time before masks were required. Now with all indoor public spaces masks are required and they no longer count folks in and out. I went to othe rstore sand came back if the line was too long. and it was over 100 that day. It was over 100 most days in late June and July so far.
Bil lD

[Bert Kemp]

My biggest problem with wally world is they have the entrance door at the opposite end of the building from the pharmacy which is about the only thing I go in there for. I can't walk very far so its very hard for me to get my meds.

[Bill Dufour]

I have read that children, and daughters grandchildren, of women who got Spanish Flu in 1918 as little girls, including unborn, have statistically significantly shorter lives and more health problems. This affects grand daughters from the atomic bombing in Japan as well. I hope covid19 does not do this as well, but who knows.
Remember that,unlike a boy, a baby girl is born with all the eggs she will ever have. So her eggs, and unborn children, are forever affected by anything that happened envitro. I have no idea if that is true of other mammals.
Bill D

[Andrew Seemann]

I bet it wasn't really that hot. Probably below 100 there. The box stores were counting people in and out with limits on how many inside at any time before masks were required. Now with all indoor public spaces masks are required and they no longer count folks in and out. I went to othe rstore sand came back if the line was too long. and it was over 100 that day. It was over 100 most days in late June and July so far.
Bil lD

Minnesota has the reputation of being cold, but it gets hot and humid here in the summer, just not as long as most places. Last week it was as or more hot and humid in Minneapolis than Orlando, Charlotte, Dallas, Nashville, etc. Dewpoints were in the upper 70s, just plain miserable, and hard to breathe, even without a mask.

Actually one of the highest verified dew points ever recorded in the USA was 88F in Moorhead MN, 150 miles south of Canada. The heat index was 134F.